General Chat

Here are a few more hidden gems for me besides the ones in my earlier list:

Dethklok - The Doomstar Requiem: A Klok Opera (2013) - Melodeath/symphonic metal opera soundtrack to that Metalocalypse special

October Tide - The Cancer Pledge (2023) - Melodic death-doom

Hinayana - Shatter and Fall (2023) - Melodic death-doom

Mercenary - Everblack (2002) - Melodeath with power metal influences

Becoming the Archetype - The Physics of Fire (2007) - Progressive melodeath with metalcore influences

Yeah, I guess you're right, Daniel. But it was worth a good experiment. I don't think my packed schedule both here and in the outside world would let me do just one album/clan per week anyway.

In other words, you'd make an average deathcore album :P

Ambient: Imagine if King Crimson and Tangerine Dream got together.  It would be a little jazzy, occasionally folksy, throw in an emotional rollercoaster with some chamber and black ambient, and maybe include a Philip Glass cover.

How would you make a folk pop album?

Dragoncorpse - The Drakketh Saga. Sure this album leans towards symphonic power metal, but deathcore is the more dominating genre there. Maybe a little too extreme for the kids, but at least the lyrics don't have any swearing.

Congrats Shezma. I would look at all the Infinite challenge lists, see which is likely to appeal to you most and then go through it in chronological order. I have always found that it helps in understanding the development of a genre and possible influences if you do it that way.

Kawaii metal is a little more of a "scene" genre, being almost entirely based in Japan, and some of us have struggled with where those kinds of genres stand here, which is why I don't count Neue Deutsche Härte as a subgenre in my Sphere playlists.

I'm not sure I agree to be honest. I think prime examples of genres being more "scenes" than genuine subgenres are the NWOBHM & (to a lesser extent) US power metal. The NWOBHM didn't have a well-defined sound with bands like Venom, Saxon & Witchfinder General all sounding vastly different to each other & arguably sitting in different genres altogether when considered outside of the movement. US power metal is similar but not so extreme in this respect. The other major issue with those subgenres is that only bands from those locations are eligible for entry due to their naming which is silly in my opinion.

I don't see Kawaii metal or Neue Deutsche Härte in the same light as they're generally used to group together bands with similar musical attributes. I mean, you certainly know Kawaii metal when you hear it & I always felt that the Neue Deutsche Härte tracks on The Sphere playlists stood out pretty obviously & sounded very similar to each other. Neue Deutsche Härte definitely suffers from being poorly named as it falls into the same camp as NWOBHM & US power metal in that it can really only be used by German bands but there's certainly a Neue Deutsche Härte sound that clearly differentiates itself from industrial metal as far as I can see so it'd work fine with a slight name adjustment.

Thanks for this, Xephyr! I've just tested out that website and CSV-downloading technique with my upcoming February Revolution and Sphere playlists (still in the works). However, I find Excel a little too complex for me, and anyone who doesn't have Skiley Pro can only do it 3 times for free. I prefer the old-fashioned way of typing it all out, but there's a twist in my technique. After making my sneak peek suggestions in the Revolution and Sphere playlists, I copy them into Notepad and type out all the other tracks in the playlists in the same format (artist name, track name, track length, album name, album release date). Then when I send them to Daniel before the middle of the month, I set the tracks I've typed out to the order that they run in the playlist tracklistings and remove the track lengths that are only needed to keep track of their two-hour total lengths. And finally, when the first day of the month comes, I just copy the playlist tracklistings and paste them to their respective forum posts. Anyway, I still appreciate your suggestion and understand your technique, so you do you.

I'll definitely be starting Album Cover of the Year conversations in the coming weeks.

Now here's something that hasn't been brought up as much in this site as it really should; special collaboration projects by record labels, featuring various bands and their members. Impressive projects like this are very rare nowadays, but checking out the ones that exist are a great way to explore material made by different members of different bands, often altogether, and even get interested in some of those bands. Any musicians from at least one metal band you love and enjoy? Those albums have it all! Here's perhaps the most famous example:

Roadrunner Records is one of the most famous and diverse metal/hard rock record labels of all time. Famous and infamous bands signed to the label like Slipknot, Trivium, Fear Factory, and Machine Head have made the label as big as it is. And the then-core members of each of those 4 bands were chosen for ambitious project conceived by ex-vice president of the label Monte Conner. He wanted to do a special thing for Roadrunner's 25th anniversary. He wanted 4 members of different bands band together to make an album dedicated to the label. But then he decided to upgrade his idea into something more ambitious... The 4 chosen ones, ex-Slipknot drummer Joey Jordison (RIP), Trivium frontman Matt Heafy, Fear Factory guitarist Dino Cazares, and Machine Head frontman Robb Flynn were tasked in each recording 4 songs (though one captain would have a bonus 5th) and choose any member of a Roadrunner-signed band past or present to record with them. The end result is a massive 18-song 77-minute album featuring 57 artists from 45 bands! Here's to another impressive project like this in the future, hopefully in Roadrunner's 50th year, 2030. Anyway, this release is currently tagged as alt-metal, but you can't deny the metalcore, thrash, groove, and to a lesser extent, death/black metal appearing here. Here's my genre analysis for the 14 tracks of the album:

1. The Dagger - thrash metal/groove metal/metalcore

2. The Enemy - death metal/thrash metal/metalcore

3. Annihilation by the Hands of God - death metal

4. In the Fire - heavy metal/speed metal

5. The End - hard rock/alternative metal

6. Tired 'n Lonely - blues rock/hard rock

7. Independent (Voice of the Voiceless) - thrash metal/groove metal

8. Dawn of a Golden Age - black metal

9. The Rich Man - nu metal/alternative metal

10. No Way Out - alternative rock/pop rock

11. Baptized in the Redemption - groove metal/nu metal

12. Roads - acoustic ballad

13. Blood & Flames - groove metal/sludge metal/metalcore

14. Constitution Down - groove metal/thrash metal

15. I Don't Wanna Be (A Superhero) - hardcore punk

16. Army of the Sun - heavy metal/alternative metal

17. No Mas Control - groove metal/nu metal/metalcore

18. Enemy of the State - gothic metal/doom metal

Primary genres: Alternative metal, groove metal

Secondary genres: Thrash metal, metalcore

The alternative metal tag will still be kept on for this album as a general genre for many of the songs covering alt-metal, nu metal, and alt-rock, but it's as dominant as groove metal there. I'll make a judgement submission for this album soon. Anyway, does anyone here know any special releases similar to this, with dozens of members from different bands in the same record label for a special occasion? Discuss!

Sorry to hear, Xephyr. It is sad and painful to lose an essential part of your music life. It's times like this when it's good to enjoy and appreciate what we have while we still have it.

Especially since my mouse is acting up a little.

Another new list added. This one is for Felipe Machado Franco whose distinctive art adorns many power metal album covers:

https://metal.academy/lists/single/255

Hi Ben, has there been any movement on adding "Various Artists" releases to the site, such as "Metal for Muthas" or "Hell Comes to Your House"? I appreciate that the site's set-up doesn't really allow for it, but could we not just have VA set up as a band name and add releases accordingly, or would that screw something else up behind the scenes? "Metal for Muthas", especially volume one, was just so important to the spread of the NWOBHM and the popularity of bands such as Iron Maiden and Angel Witch that it seems to be a gaping omission that it isn't included here.

I just discovered something.  If there are two conjoined albums two numbers apart, like 13 and 15, if you press up on the lower number or down on the high number, the numbers will be connected properly, say 13 and 14, or 14 and 15.

Thanks for telling me how to fix this.

Yeah, it's always perplexed me that people don't care for it since it's a great piece of Fates Warning-inspired prog metal. Guess it's just because it's not quite the sound they would become.

Yeah, I think it's a little more accurate personally but would throw Nintendocore in under the Electronicore banner too if I was them as it's simply too specific.

I think nintendocore used to be under trancecore but they removed it a couple years ago.

Personally, I'll downrate anything that feels too monotone.  Length itself is only a common factor in this, but even a 20 minute album can feel samey and unimaginative.  This is part of why I consider Reign in Blood inferior to South of Heaven, and more appropriately, Pleasure to Kill under several Kreator albums.  Of course, length itself is an element that can be used properly, if the musician is good enough, like on many slower metal genres such as doom.  My favorite example of this would be The Dreadful Hours.  Or course, the absolute best I can think of is William Basinski's Disintegration Loops.

My favorite last time I listened to it is Hell - Curse and Chapter, while something that reflects more of what I listen to is Doom - Human Noise. Well-crafted technical, often veering into controlled chaos is more my forte than something that's just a perfectly crafted album of metal.

Different Hell than the one I've heard.  Classic heavy metal from the modern day is always welcome.

Oh, totally Ben. I was gonna raise that one too.

To be fair, I'd listen to his death metal opinions above mine. We often disagree, but then I find myself coming around to his way of thinking more often than I'd like to admit (ssshhhh... don't tell him I said that).

I'd suggest that people make an exception with melodic death metal Ben. I think we both know that I can't be trusted to provide a fair judgement in that space.

Slam death metal is never usually my thing, as I tend to avoid the more brutal death metal subgenres, but Fanguine takes on a strong diverse direction in both the music and lyrical themes, instead of just gore, gore, and more gore. The music sounds quite good despite still sounding brutal, with several other metal genres thrown into their main technical/slam death metal sound. A couple highlights for me are the final two tracks; "Let Me Explain" with its "broken transmission" deathcore, and "Genocidal Genesis", a decently long progressive epic that still stands by their usual sound. I can definitely imagine the latter track making history in the extreme metal scene, and that final verse with "Angel of Death"-esque Nazi lyrics would definitely be making headlines. Lots of great moments in the album! Still too brutal for me, but highly recommendable for the more extreme metalheads. I give that album a personal rating of 3/5, or a percentage rating of 64%.

Emotional Suffering - Nocturnal Solitude

Primary genres: deathcore, melodic death metal

Secondary genres: dark folk, symphonic black metal, gothic metal

In November 19, 2027, an album is released to continue the rising scene of epic deathcore popularized by bands like Shadow of Intent, Lorna Shore, and Mental Cruelty. This is... Nocturnal Solitude by Emotional Suffering, a deathcore/melodic death metal band from Wisconsin. They expand on the dark lyrical themes mostly of death, depression, and loss, close to the lyrical themes that many doom metal bands have, but of course in a different sound. While sticking firmly in melodic deathcore, elements of genres like dark folk, symphonic black metal, and gothic metal are added into the mix. The ethereal yet spooky cover art is by a young artist inspired by the late Mariusz Lewandowski, a tree being blown heavily by a dark lightning storm, with a background mirage of a Grim Reaper. After the short symphonic blackened deathcore introductory title track that starts with a one-minute intro, you can expect a solid run of diverse melodic deathcore. Background female vocals can be found in the tracks "Darkness and Sorrow", "It's All We've Loved", and "Beyond the Killing End". The latter track is the 3-part 16-minute final epic, in a similar vein to the title suites of Shadow of Intent's Elegy and Lorna Shore's Pain Remains, though indexed as a full track. The second part is a 4-minute dark folk/ambient interlude, sandwiched between the two other 6-minute parts that have the usual melodic deathcore sound with symphonic black metal elements. The third part has less emphasis on deathcore, but it unleashes one final deathcore breakdown that, despite not being a single, can surpass that of Lorna Shore's "To the Hellfire", and a one-minute dark folk outro to end the album. Or at least the standard edition of the album. The edition released in Japan has a bonus track, a cover of Lorna Shore's "Immortal" released on YouTube the prior year, so popular upon upload, that's how they have gained a record label. The album sells well in a steady pace, and the aforementioned final breakdown and folk outro is often played at the end of concerts.

Lyrical themes: sadness (1, 5, 6, 7), death (2, 3, 4, 8, 9), loss (2, 4, 5, 6, 7), sorrow (3, 4, 8, 9), depression (3, 5, 7, 8)

1. Nocturnal Solitude (2:53, dark folk, deathcore, symphonic black metal)

2. Cut Up Alone (4:42, deathcore, melodic death metal)

3. Darkness and Sorrow (3:25, deathcore, gothic metal, melodic death metal)

4. Dead Tomorrow After Living Today (6:15, deathcore, melodic death metal, technical death metal)

5. Coma Eclipse (4:43, deathcore, folk metal, dark folk)

6. The Blackened Path of Silence (4:13, deathcore, melodic death metal)

7. Distant Calling (5:27, deathcore, melodic death metal, gothic metal)

8. It's All We've Loved (5:27, deathcore, gothic metal)

9. Beyond the Killing End (16:07, deathcore, melodic death metal, symphonic black metal, dark folk, dark ambient)

I. The Dwelling of Death (deathcore, melodic death metal, symphonic black metal)

II. Sun Without a New Year (dark folk, dark ambient)

III. It Ends Forever (melodic death metal, symphonic black metal, deathcore, dark folk)

10. Immortal (Lorna Shore cover) (Japanese edition bonus track) (6:48, deathcore, symphonic black metal, technical death metal)

I got a few of the very early issues of ZT and found it suited my taste better than Terrorizer (which was still going at the time). It was a decent mag, but suffered the same problems as all printed media that has to attract readers to keep afloat in that it tended to cover the better known acts and didn't really delve into the underground.

While it could hardly be said I'm the biggest fan of death/black metal, I find that my distaste these days stems less from the vocals and more how everyone seems to have this habit of going full one note aggression. It irks me less in black metal since that tends to be the whole point, and thus bands tend to work it to their advantage, but death metal seems to have it bad. I have especially come to loathe any song in which the drummer just hammers the drumkit, regardless of genre. Funny thing, I wouldn't describe this endless aggression as exclusive to metal or punk, I heard some Mexican music not too long ago as I was in a Mexican fast food place, which basically just consisted of a dude singing fast over some fast acoustic guitar. Basically, have some variety.

Vocalists trying to sink outside of their range hits me pretty big too. I'm not talking like King Diamond, I'm talking like someone singing at the top of their range and you can hear their voice, and possibly your windows, cracking.

Death is the most obvious one but I'd also nominate Converge & Gorguts.

Gorguts would be my major call on this thread.  A band that not only consistently puts out quality material but actually improves with every release also.  Likewise, I would agree with Death being on the list, obviously.  BAN are another great call.  There are some golden runs that I cannot get away without mentioning - first 4 Metallica records and first 4 Sepultura also.  Both more or less went to shit afterwards unfortunately so would not qualify for the whole discography sphere of this thread.

Couple of others from me:

Nordicwinter, one man Canadian bm artist who can do no wrong in my book.

Sargeist, consistency is key in this accolade and this guys are as solid as they come.

Autopsy, I can't think of anyone else who produces such consistently sloppy and ugly death metal, release after release.  They pretend to be nothing other than what they are and make no apologies for being so.

I was also going to ask about the Iron Maiden, but there's obviously too much passion emanating from Daniel that I'll leave it to my imagination. 

It did make me curious though, as this is probably easier than the Best 10 Albums Of All Time. Encenathrakh is easily #1, but the rest isn't in any order, and the De Magia Veterum album may be a bit of a stretch since I'm more used to Black Metal than I was a few years ago.

1. Encenathrakh - Ithate Thngth Oceate
2. Delusional Parasitosis / Ecchymosis / Dissevered / Bleeding - Scaphism 4-Way Split (2017)
3. Machine Head - Catharsis (2018)
4. The Devil Wears Prada - The Act (2019)
5. Combichrist - One Fire (2019)
6. Body Count - Carnivore (2020)
7. De Magia Veterum - Naked Swords Into the Wombs of the Enemy (2017)
8. Ada Rook - UGLY DEATH NO REDEMPTION ANGEL CURSE I LOVE YOU (2022)
9. Phyllomedusa - Desiccation in Progress (Version II) (2011)
10. Antediluvian - The Divine Punishment (2021)

I have actually listened to Wintaar a bit and have rated two or three of his albums, the best of which is Nordic Glares Bless the Dead which I described at the time as "Rabid-sounding, blasting, russian black metal that will strip the paint off your car at fifty paces!" Not bad, but not great either. I guess it's easier for a lone wolf outfit to keep going in the face of massive indifference than it is a full band. You have got to admire artist's like these tenacity in a way. Might check a couple more of his albums out now you've reminded me of him, Ben, as I haven't listened to him for a while.

Thanks guys.  I'll check them out.

I find this breakout of my ratings to be quite interesting too:

5 star             1.9%

4.5 star         11.3%

4 star             26.8%

3.5 star          30.6%

3 star             18.2%

2.5 star           7.7%

2 star              3.3%

1.5 star           1.5%

1 star               0.5%

0.5 star            0.2%

I'm comfortable with that spread to be honest. It shows that I save the 5/5 ratings for the elite of the elite & it also shows that I don't consciously go looking for music that's clearly not gonna fall anywhere near my wheelhouse all that often either.

Although I have only 93 releases that I have at 5 stars that still seems too high for me and so I am slowly revisiting these - I suppose 93 albums over 35 years of listening to metal isn't that high but I think there are one or two that probably got overrated.

I'm with you there Vinny, I have 120+ five star albums and that seems a lot, although when I have revisited them I find it very hard to downgrade them because, yes they do sound that good.

As long as it's clearly stated, I'm not going to be pedantic about how or where. I understand that including the text in the image itself might be too intrusive. In the description if there is one, or as a directly associated comment etc. is fine.

Thanks for explaining.  Btw, I've got the outline for the first pic half done.  I'm gonna do one for each clan first in order of their appearance on the clans section of MA, so the first to get a poster is The Fallen.

Hey there, Rexorcist. I saw your complete list in Metalforum, and it looks awesome! A solid list of metal classics and favorites. Do you plan on sharing it here, whether it's the full list or just the links?

Thanks a bunch for checking out the list.  I want to make it, but there's still one album missing from the database.  It's really difficult to get this one added, and I don't wanna replace it with number #101.  But I honestly believe that it's one of the very first "metal" albums.

Trance Metal has now been completely removed from the database with each release now sitting under the most significant alternative primary/secondary genre/subgenre.

I would very much be the one who called it, it's just so epic for me! Also in that article, there's a motivational Facebook post from Will Ramos in 2014 (long before he joined Lorna Shore) that basically combats Nergal's suggestion. While there are consequences such as relentless amounts of touring and recording and how much money to make, it's a good dream. I might not be able to accomplish such a feat today, but I might in the future if I can practice doing what I can when I can. You just gotta not put yourself down and instead believe in yourself. There's never too many bands or too much music, there just needs to be a balance in everything. No standstills and no overloads.

Bands from the Every Noise metal map I've listened to in the past and still listen to today (might also keep traveling through the industrial metal "north" with bands like Pain and Fear Factory):

The revenue is now coming from streaming - a digital world that was nonexistent back in the day.

From everything I've read & heard, bands actually make bugger-all off streaming their music unless they're at the extreme top level. I have several friends that produce music that's sold on streaming platforms & they're always complaining that they make next to nothing from it. All but the absolute elite metal bands make most of their money from touring & merchandise sales these days. The importance of producing their own music is so that they can get people to book them for live shows.

Yes, that is my understanding of the situation too. Artists want their music streamed by as many people as possible in the hope that those people will then buy tickets to shows, t-shirts and hoodies etc. This is the only real explanantion for streaming services being so cheap (or even free if you're not bothered by advertising) and the price of merchandise and physical copies of music are so high. I pay a tenner a month for Spotify and can (and often do) listen to dozens of albums in a month, yet to buy a single CD from a local record shop or off Bandcamp costs more than a month of Spotify and for my preferred format of vinyl records, two or three months. You can buy a t-shirt from Primark for three ot four quid, but stick a Maiden or Judas Priest transfer on it and it'll set you back £20+.

Not to sound parental, but if it's a small genre, you should at least listen to the highest rated albums in the genre (minimum saaaay 10?) before that level of certainty can be justified.

I guess I'll take the fourth Pit slot.  I can always hold off on the Pit challenge a little longer.

Cool. As above, we'll make that draft out of 6.

Sure. Paid on completion of the work though!

Don't get me wrong, this isn't a plea to include demos.  The first music site I joined wouldn't allow EP's or bootlegs.  But this makes for a decent discussion since there are so many.

I'm talking about albums that take you into new worlds visually and audibly, albums that do things to you that other albums can't do.

The first thing that comes to mind right now is Hallucinogen by Blut Aus Nord for its extremely psychedelic behavior, as well as anything by Oranssi Pazuzu.

Thank you for the apology.

To be fair, the system is all about walking fine lines because of the overlap in genres becoming unpredictable.  For example, take Hell II's incredible usage of sludge, doom and drone with hints of death and black.  With its major genres, it's the perfect album for The Fallen.  And then we have a mix of power metal and thrash metal on Burnt Offerings, boasting mild symphonic, prog and doom and death influences.  It likely fits in both the Guardians and The Pit (no way Dante's Inferno is power instead of thrash), but it also takes atmospheric influence from key genres of the Horde and the Fallen.  When a band like Fleshgod comes around, that's when things get technical and the discussions begin.

Of course, I can't speak for Apocalyptica, but I was thikning along the lines of the high-energy music of Dawn of the Dragonstar by Twilight Force and the symphonic power sounds of Galneryus.  The heaviness of death metal mixed with the high symphonic focus brought the same feeling somewhat to life, thus through heaviness the similarities are found where they likely shouldn't be found.

This reminds me of a movie I saw which surprised me with how well it handled two completely different genres and combined them so seamlessly: gritty film noir and children's cartoons.  Roger Rabbit.  The key factor in combining the two was violence.  The scene explaining Bob Hoskin's disdain for cartoons in the bar said it all.

Yeah, that's pretty fuckin' punk.

Alright I'm wrong - Hell III is heavier.

One of my all-time favourites right there.

I figured the answer would be something along those lines.

I think Ben's point is that he adds every release to Metal Academy himself.

... I did not know that.  Lemme know when you get a second guy on board so I can bug someone else about all my favorite indie bands. :P

I don't see any reason to remove these releases to be honest. They've obviously been deemed to be pretty close to metal or metal-related by some people & we've always intended the site to be very much against the "gatekeeper" style approach of some of our competitors. As long as these releases are marked as Non-Metal then I don't see that they cause any harm unless they're an obvious piss-take.

Hey Morpheus, I have used mp3 players extensively over the years and have found Sandisk players to be of really good quality. I have two of them and the first one is more than fifteen years old and still works perfectly. I used to use them at work and they took a bit of hammer there and still survived. The micro-SD slots also work fine. My problem was always trying to find headphones that would last. I don't have a smartphone, so I do sometimes get some use out of them, although I tend to use my Amazon Fire tablet and download off Spotify when away from home. I do however use USB drives in the car as the car stereo has a USB port. I know, what a Luddite, eh?!

These aren't ordered but it was real interesting going through my ratings and seeing how many bands had their breakout album on their 2nd or 3rd instead of their debut. Way more than I imagined, these were some of the most interesting ones I could find without listing any duplicates, since Devin Townsend, Emperor, Ne Obliviscaris, and Ahab would have made the list for me.

1. Neptunian Maximalism - Éons (2020)
2. Rage Against the Machine - Rage Against the Machine (1992)
3. Blood Incantation - Starspawn (2016)
4. Opeth - Orchid (1995)
5. Cryptic Shift - Visitations From Enceladus (2020)
6. Stormkeep - Tales of Othertime (2021)
7. Kayo Dot - Choirs of the Eye (2003)
8. Altesia - Paragon Circus (2019)
9. Epiphanic Truth - Dark Triad: Bitter Psalms to a Sordid Species (2021)
10. Herzel - Le dernier rempart (2021)

The content of the list is fairly irrelevant as any list compiled by a corporate entity means FA to me. If I'm going to read a list of greatest metal albums I would much rather read one compiled by someone who actually gives a shit about metal in the first place - at least it's gonna be honest. The point I was trying to make is that metal was originally derided and scorned, when not just ignored, by the established music commentators. Compare this to the advent of punk rock when everyone in the music press wet themselves over it from the get-go because it was controversial and would sell copies -  which is the only thing that ever matters to these cultural vampires. 

In fact, here in the UK, metal and hard rock (that wasn't The Stooges or the New York Dolls) got even more of a hard time and was mercilessly derided. That is unti the advent of the NWOBHM when suddenly everyone in the music press - surprise, surprise - were smelling money and were suddenly lifelong mealheads. This was all in pre-internet days obviously when the only alternative to these charlatans was our friends and peers who helped each other to form and pollinate their own metal taste and so form bonds within a scene that no amount of corporate bullshit could penetrate.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I view Metal Academy as very much akin to that clique of friends and peers who helped shape my metal world in the face of outside derision and hostility, as represented not only by the corporate media, but also clickbait-addicted hipsters on other sites (hello RYM) who's sole purpose seems to be to deride metal and metalheads. So let's all keep on doing what we're doing and fuck those assholes who just don't "get it" because we don't need their scorn and we don't need their approval.

Sorry - rant over.