General Chat

Surprise.

Black Sabbath - S/T (1970)

Let's see if I can say something unique about this one. Probably not. I've been trying to get back into playing the guitar, which I generally can't make as intelligent observations about my own skill or lackthereof outside of stuff like "how the fuck do you play that chord?" or "made that note high-pitched". Every skill from guitar to language learning has observations you can make as an amateur and observations you can only make if you actually know what you're doing.
This applies here in that there are two albums called Black Sabbath. The Black Sabbath we all have in our head that's heavier than everything released until 1982, which is really just the first song, and then the other Black Sabbath, which has that and then far more psychedelic music flow throughout it. I don't need to explain the former album, even if you haven't listened to Black Sabbath its the exact thing you have in your head from reputation or the album cover, it's the latter that needs explaining. The album minus the title track.
While the album is very heavy for 1970 it is not so out of place for the most part. Other bands occasionally reached the heaviness on one or more tracks an album. Basically every single distinct song on this album is at least a bit metal. The key word is distinct song. There is a lot of more jam session-esque pieces on the album bridging songs. Not Dream Theater, more Grateful Dead. An almost ambient backing, carrying the dark mood far more than most metal bands would do afterwards.
In this regard, no one imitating the band has gotten close to them. It's very easy to imitate the heavy sound these guys had, but it's another to imitate the whole package. To start off with something that sounds like it should be playing over the apocalyptic wastes before switching to a heavier version of '60s bluesy rock instrumental. To not make it sound forced or obviously distinct, but for it to just be. Not their doom metal imitators, nor their occult rock imitators. Even my personal candidate for the band carrying on the original Sabbath spirit, Ningen Isu, only ever get as far as imitating most of their elements. If metal is defined as imitating Sabbath, metal has failed.
This is back in the days when Ozzy still sounded weird and alien, rather than a coked out methhead behind a 7/11. You get some strange contrasts. On The Wizard, despite sounding dark and depressing, comes off as oddly upbeat which by all accounts should come off as deeply sarcastic. Especially since the album ends with a song in which he laments about a love he never had. It's one of those things that happens because this is the era where a band doing X genre absolutely must do so and so lyrically.
Sabbath's debut is just as unique now as it was originally. Did it invent heavy metal? Basically, but it's not just that, and that's why 50 years down the line it's worth listening to even as probably millions have imitated it in some way.

9/10

Let's also not forget the awful cover songs on early Megadeth albums with Boots and Anarchy... both being especially loathesome.

I can't believe no one, and I mean NO ONE on the internet as far as I know, has pointed out the similarities between the verse melody of Beast in Black's "theme song"...

...And the main melody of the most popular track by epic music production company Two Steps From Hell:

But, as is evident, my particular passion is all things doom and by now I have covered an awful lot of the older stuff worth listening to

That’s a very good point actually. It hadn’t occurred to me previously,

Here's the December feature release nomination list:

THE FALLEN: Ben, Daniel

THE GATEWAY: Andi, Saxy

THE GUARDIANS: Karl, Xephyr

THE HORDE: Daniel, Karl, Vinny, Ben

THE INFINITE: Andi, Xephyr, Saxy

THE NORTH: Daniel, Ben, Karl, Xephyr

THE PIT: Vinny, Ben, Daniel

THE REVOLUTION: Andi, Daniel

THE SPHERE: Daniel, Andi

I’m very much the opposite to be honest. I came to Maiden through “Somewhere in Time”, “Seventh Son of a Seventh Son” & “Live After Death” before heading back to their esrlier work & I have to admit that the Dianno albums always seemed to be a step down (a couple of steps down in some cases) from the Dickinson ones for me personally. In fact, the only Dianno record that I regard as being essential is the “Maiden Japan” E.P. & I consider “Killers” to be the least impressive of Maiden’s 80’s full-lengths. I guess the huge variety in opinions on what Maiden’s best & worst records are is the strongest representation of just how consistent & relevant they were during their prime.

Yeah, I think with Maiden, more than with any other metal band, it all comes down to what albums meant most to you when you got into them. Sure, I can appreciate that the later albums are technically better and better written, but they don't mean as much as Killers because that album captured a period of time, for me personally, that transcends mere grooves on records. That is one of the things I find endlessly fascinating about music - it's ability to capture a time and place in a listener's mind better than any photograph. I think that if we dismiss that and judge music solely on it's technical merits then we are much poorer as individuals for it.

I haven't settled on the order just yet, but I reckon mine would look something like this...

1. My Dying Bride - Turn Loose the Swans

2. diSEMBOWELMENT - Transcendence Into the Peripheral

3. Cynic - Focus

4. Satyricon - Dark Medieval Times

5. Pestilence - Spheres

6. Darkthrone - Under a Funeral Moon

7. Death - Individual Thought Patterns

8. Morbid Angel - Covenant

9. Coroner - Grin

10. Carcass - Heartwork

This only half-surprises me.  From what I understand from my old days there, RYMer's on the forums were generally disdained with the amount of metal albums throughout each modern yearly chart.  But this also means the raters are generally metalheads themselves.  Taking a look now, the new Blood Incantation is number 5 for 2024 at this time, and the charts have been like this for years.

Today I was checking on the anniversaries page, and it looks like October 14, 2014 was quite a day for metalcore, deathcore, and technical death metal:

Also on that day is the release of this EP by post-sludge metallers Rosetta:

I decided that I'll stop doing my monthly playlist total ratings in this thread, because they're all pretty much the same and haven't caused much discussion. All I'm gonna say about this month is, my playlists and songs I've listened to from Saxy's playlists have paid off again with a rating of 4.5 stars each. I recommend them to any fan of the clans' respective genres and anyone who isn't into those genres but wants to get into a great start in enjoying them. Thanks, Daniel, for accepting these playlists, and good work all!

Thanks, Xephyr.

Let's see,  first four Metallica albums, Sepultura with Schizophrenia through Arise, Drudkh from Autumn Auroa through Blood in Our Wells. 

Ulcerate are still on a golden run on their last four albums.

Maiden for me would also match Ben's opinion and I would also go with that Opeth run too.

I would throw in Judas Priest from Sad Wings of Destiny through Stained Class.

I considered that Sepultura run. I need to revisit Schizophrenia.

There's really only the one metal tune on Scorpions' 1980 seventh album "Animal Magnetism" which is the closing title track. The rest is about as hard rock as hard rock gets.

Took the opportunity to head to Philly to see Tomb Mold and Horrendous with opener Witching, the first two having some of my favorite albums of recent years with Idols and Ontological Mysterium for Horrendous, and Planetary Clairvoyance plus The Enduring Spirit for Tomb Mold. Witching was a decent opener but the venue production didn't do them any favors, although the vocalist kinda killed it since she had some serious range to go lower with the growl/different style of cleans. Cool band that seemingly played every extreme metal genre all at once. 

Horrendous were the main reason I went, especially since they're Philly locals, and hearing one of my favorite albums from last year live was obviously very cool. Again, this wasn't the venue for nuanced Progressive/Technical Death Metal, but the earplugs I eventually put in honestly helped out the sound balance. They're all fantastic musicians but their bassist is especially insane. You could tell they loved playing their shit together, which is half the battle of live shows; being genuine. Got tossed around the most during this set and picked the wrong 'fight' with some older guy easily 50 pounds above me, went at him when he ducked his shoulder and I got flung backwards, ribs around my chest are still giving me some pain here and there. 

Tomb Mold were the headliner and they also delivered a great set, not as bombastic of a stage presence as Horrendous but they came out and did their thing. Mostly new stuff off of The Enduring Spirit so there were some breaks of just listening to some progressive noodling, which was very nice amidst all the Death Metal. Biggest thing I learned is that apparently Tomb Mold's vocalist is their drummer, which is wild to me. Guy absolutely killed it on both fronts, what he's playing ain't easy and I can't imagine doing that while also barking out all those growls. I was out of my weight class in the admittedly small pit, last time I went to this venue it wasn't exactly slammed or aggressive despite all the Brutal Death Metal shirts. Very cool show, just wish that the venue had a bit better sound production but I don't know what else you do in that dungeon of a concert venue. Tickets were dirt cheap too, so I can't complain that much. 

eh any time, I guess... don't really have anything going on at home

Like Ben, I haven't really focused on metal labels since the 1990's. Back then I used to religiously follow labels like Earache Records & premier Aussie extreme metal label Warhead Records but these days that's limited to ones that are a little closer to home like Sphere of Apparition (Oni, Neuropath, Unholy Redeemer, etc.). It's far easier to find good music in the internet age than it was when all we had to go on were magazines & word of mouth. Labels served a stronger purpose as a reliable provider of music that fit their particular niche. You can simply Google that stuff these days.

You know you're in the right clans when you actually struggle to come up with 10 bands you truly love outside of them. Here's my shot at it...

Faith No More (Gateway)

Iron Maiden (Guardians)

Black Sabbath (Guardians)

Opeth (Infinite)

Arcturus (Infinite)

Mr. Bungle (Infinite)

Meshuggah (Infinite)

Godflesh (Sphere)

Ministry (Sphere)

Red Harvest (Sphere)

Have no fear, your resident new music sap is here!

1. Ulcerate - Cutting the Throat of God (Technical Death Metal)

2. Pallbearer - Mind Burns Alive (Doom Metal)

3. Dvne - Voidkind (Atmospheric Sludge/Post-Metal)

4. Big Brave - A Chaos of Flowers (Post/Drone Metal)

5. Vorga - Beyond the Palest Star (Black Metal)

6. Judas Priest - Invincible Shield (Heavy Metal)

7. Ihsahn - Ihsahn (Progressive/Symphonic Metal)

8. Dissimulator - Lower Form Resistance (Technical Death/Thrash Metal)

9. Hoplites - Παραμαινομένη (Paramainomeni) (Avant Garde Black Metal)

Sorry for not including a whole lot of black metal so far this year; scheduling adjustments have made finding new black metal really difficult. These are just some of the albums that I went through my list and found albums that we have not mutually reviewed yet. I also kept the genres pretty close to ones that I know you'll be more interested in checking out.

What better way to commemorate the 20,000th Metal Academy post with a new album from one of my outside-world friends who's a talented metal musician? No it's not Danny Ultrawiz, he's been out of the metal picture for years now. It's my new friend Arezz who goes by the name "Rust". He made his own album titled U Suk! It's a really awesome work of art inspired by classic speed/thrash/first-wave black metal bands. I think it would be really helpful if any of you can please check out that album and spread the word about it. With all you guys' help, maybe he can gain enough exposure to have more fame and confidence and even join this site, and it would all be thanks to me and fellow supporting Metal Academy members. Here it is:

Also available on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/34ZKHMMeM0IAf6uHH1Bsk5

Here's my updated list, and since we already have a "metal in 2024" thread, I don't need the "albums I'm looking forward to getting" thing in this thread anymore:

Beginning oldies (1975-1989)/B.M. (Before Metalcore):

1975: Scorpions - In Trance

1976: Judas Priest - Sad Wings of Destiny

1977: Riot - Rock City

1978: Scorpions - Taken by Force

1979: Riot - Narita

1980: Scorpions - Animal Magnetism

1981: Riot - Fire Down Under

1982: Scorpions - Blackout

1983: Metallica - Kill 'Em All

1984: Voivod - War and Pain

1985: Watchtower - Energetic Disassembly

1986: Dark Angel - Darkness Descends

1987: Voivod - Killing Technology

1988: Voivod - Dimension Hatröss

1989: Voivod - Nothingface

Golden hit classics and millennium transition highlights (1990-2004)/Metalcore's humble beginnings and light of day-seeing classics:

1990: Rorschach - Remain Sedate

1991: Coroner - Mental Vortex

1992: Sadus - A Vision of Misery

1993: Alchemist - Jar of Kingdom

1994: Circle of Dust - Brainchild

1995: Waltari - Big Bang

1996: Red Harvest - HyBreed

1997: Illdisposed - There's Something Rotten... In the State of Denmark

1998: Embodyment - Embrace the Eternal

1999: Madder Mortem - Mercury

2000: AP2 - Suspension of Disbelief

2001: Eternal Tears of Sorrow - A Virgin and a Whore

2002: Norma Jean - Bless the Martyr and Kiss the Child

2003: Kayo Dot - Choirs of the Eye

2004: Turmion Katilot - Hoitovirhe

Modern favorites (2005-2019)/Rise of the full Revolution:

2005: Trivium - Ascendancy

2006: Mercenary - The Hours That Remain

2007: Becoming the Archetype - The Physics of Fire

2008: In This Moment - The Dream

2009: Trail of Tears - Bloodstained Endurance

2010: High on Fire - Snakes for the Divine

2011: Trivium - In Waves

2012: Tremonti - All I Was

2013: Alter Bridge - Fortress

2014: The Acacia Strain - Coma Witch

2015: Intronaut - The Direction of Last Things

2016: Insomnium - Winter's Gate

2017: Unleash the Archers - Apex

2018: Alien Weaponry - Tu

2019: Northlane - Alien

The best of the most recent (2020-present)/A greater new uprising:

2020: Code Orange - Underneath

2021: Trivium - In the Court of the Dragon

2022: Lorna Shore - Pain Remains

2023: Mutoid Man - Mutants

2024: Ryujin - Ryujin

I think it was One More Light, their final album with Chester Bennington, when the band dropped pretty much all of their rock/metal aspects and sounded like a boy band, though they still played their greatest hits in the final tour.

Definitely with you regarding samples, Karl, unless done very well.. and yes, those "sex-act" vocalisations are just plain embarrassing - as is screaming accompanied by the sound of power tools.

Did somebody say power tools !? 

Exception 2: Theatre of Tragedy - And When He Falleth from Velvet Darkness They Fear (1996).
Even though the follow-up to the their debut full-length (which I hold dear to my heart) was quite a letdown for me, I have a soft spot for this track and I cannot imagine it without the lengthy dialogue samples taken from the 1964 classic The Masque of the Red Death.

Caution! Contains beauty and the beast vocals and some questionable gothicy recitations.

I used to be a fan of the more melodic gothic death-doom bands like Theatre of Tragedy, and this was one of my favorite songs by the band. I agree that the lengthy dialogue samples are the best part of the song. The only other time I've heard Vincent Price in a song is that spoken-word outro of Michael Jackson's "Thriller".

I was in a gaming club back in the Eighties playing Iron Crown's Rolemaster system which I much preferred to D&D. I think I may still have some of the lore books in the attic somewhere.

Nice!

Battle jackets look awesome, but all I can afford is band T-shirts.

Go to a thrift store, and get a cheap denim jacket. Then you order the patches seperately and sew them in. Patches are mostly cheap except for rare and tour patches. Authentic Bolt Thrower patches are very expensive and sought after.

This here is the Heavy Metal Hound Himself Mr. Louis (a.k.a. Bloober)

Thank you. I keep it ever growing. I periodically go through and prune it too. Please do enjoy. 

Today I came across this video with a topic that I think is worth discussing in this site:

I've listened to a lot of perfect albums with the best highlight for each one being the title track. It was hard choosing which ones would make my top 10, but here they are:

1. Trivium - In Waves (2011)

2. Make Them Suffer - Neverbloom (2012)

3. Converge - Jane Doe (2001)

4. Voivod - Killing Technology (1987)

5. Code Orange - Forever (2017)

6. Earth Crisis - Firestorm (1993)

7. Lorna Shore - ...And I Return to Nothingness (2021)

8. Sikth - How May I Help You? (2002)

9. Sleep Token - Take Me Back to Eden (2023)

10. High on Fire - Snakes for the Divine (2010)

So what are your top 10 albums with the best title tracks? Discuss!

They cite a “noticeable uptick” in submissions of bands with AI generated music.  They also acknowledge that this is a “work in progress”.  No names mentioned.

Here are a few more hidden gems for me besides the ones in my earlier list:

Dethklok - The Doomstar Requiem: A Klok Opera (2013) - Melodeath/symphonic metal opera soundtrack to that Metalocalypse special

October Tide - The Cancer Pledge (2023) - Melodic death-doom

Hinayana - Shatter and Fall (2023) - Melodic death-doom

Mercenary - Everblack (2002) - Melodeath with power metal influences

Becoming the Archetype - The Physics of Fire (2007) - Progressive melodeath with metalcore influences

Yeah, I guess you're right, Daniel. But it was worth a good experiment. I don't think my packed schedule both here and in the outside world would let me do just one album/clan per week anyway.

In other words, you'd make an average deathcore album :P

Ambient: Imagine if King Crimson and Tangerine Dream got together.  It would be a little jazzy, occasionally folksy, throw in an emotional rollercoaster with some chamber and black ambient, and maybe include a Philip Glass cover.

How would you make a folk pop album?

Dragoncorpse - The Drakketh Saga. Sure this album leans towards symphonic power metal, but deathcore is the more dominating genre there. Maybe a little too extreme for the kids, but at least the lyrics don't have any swearing.

Congrats Shezma. I would look at all the Infinite challenge lists, see which is likely to appeal to you most and then go through it in chronological order. I have always found that it helps in understanding the development of a genre and possible influences if you do it that way.

Kawaii metal is a little more of a "scene" genre, being almost entirely based in Japan, and some of us have struggled with where those kinds of genres stand here, which is why I don't count Neue Deutsche Härte as a subgenre in my Sphere playlists.

I'm not sure I agree to be honest. I think prime examples of genres being more "scenes" than genuine subgenres are the NWOBHM & (to a lesser extent) US power metal. The NWOBHM didn't have a well-defined sound with bands like Venom, Saxon & Witchfinder General all sounding vastly different to each other & arguably sitting in different genres altogether when considered outside of the movement. US power metal is similar but not so extreme in this respect. The other major issue with those subgenres is that only bands from those locations are eligible for entry due to their naming which is silly in my opinion.

I don't see Kawaii metal or Neue Deutsche Härte in the same light as they're generally used to group together bands with similar musical attributes. I mean, you certainly know Kawaii metal when you hear it & I always felt that the Neue Deutsche Härte tracks on The Sphere playlists stood out pretty obviously & sounded very similar to each other. Neue Deutsche Härte definitely suffers from being poorly named as it falls into the same camp as NWOBHM & US power metal in that it can really only be used by German bands but there's certainly a Neue Deutsche Härte sound that clearly differentiates itself from industrial metal as far as I can see so it'd work fine with a slight name adjustment.

Thanks for this, Xephyr! I've just tested out that website and CSV-downloading technique with my upcoming February Revolution and Sphere playlists (still in the works). However, I find Excel a little too complex for me, and anyone who doesn't have Skiley Pro can only do it 3 times for free. I prefer the old-fashioned way of typing it all out, but there's a twist in my technique. After making my sneak peek suggestions in the Revolution and Sphere playlists, I copy them into Notepad and type out all the other tracks in the playlists in the same format (artist name, track name, track length, album name, album release date). Then when I send them to Daniel before the middle of the month, I set the tracks I've typed out to the order that they run in the playlist tracklistings and remove the track lengths that are only needed to keep track of their two-hour total lengths. And finally, when the first day of the month comes, I just copy the playlist tracklistings and paste them to their respective forum posts. Anyway, I still appreciate your suggestion and understand your technique, so you do you.

I'll definitely be starting Album Cover of the Year conversations in the coming weeks.

Updated my Shadowdoom9 logo with the cool new Sherwood font that I found and installed, instead of the previously used Algerian font. (see above)

Now here's something that hasn't been brought up as much in this site as it really should; special collaboration projects by record labels, featuring various bands and their members. Impressive projects like this are very rare nowadays, but checking out the ones that exist are a great way to explore material made by different members of different bands, often altogether, and even get interested in some of those bands. Any musicians from at least one metal band you love and enjoy? Those albums have it all! Here's perhaps the most famous example:

Roadrunner Records is one of the most famous and diverse metal/hard rock record labels of all time. Famous and infamous bands signed to the label like Slipknot, Trivium, Fear Factory, and Machine Head have made the label as big as it is. And the then-core members of each of those 4 bands were chosen for ambitious project conceived by ex-vice president of the label Monte Conner. He wanted to do a special thing for Roadrunner's 25th anniversary. He wanted 4 members of different bands band together to make an album dedicated to the label. But then he decided to upgrade his idea into something more ambitious... The 4 chosen ones, ex-Slipknot drummer Joey Jordison (RIP), Trivium frontman Matt Heafy, Fear Factory guitarist Dino Cazares, and Machine Head frontman Robb Flynn were tasked in each recording 4 songs (though one captain would have a bonus 5th) and choose any member of a Roadrunner-signed band past or present to record with them. The end result is a massive 18-song 77-minute album featuring 57 artists from 45 bands! Here's to another impressive project like this in the future, hopefully in Roadrunner's 50th year, 2030. Anyway, this release is currently tagged as alt-metal, but you can't deny the metalcore, thrash, groove, and to a lesser extent, death/black metal appearing here. Here's my genre analysis for the 14 tracks of the album:

1. The Dagger - thrash metal/groove metal/metalcore

2. The Enemy - death metal/thrash metal/metalcore

3. Annihilation by the Hands of God - death metal

4. In the Fire - heavy metal/speed metal

5. The End - hard rock/alternative metal

6. Tired 'n Lonely - blues rock/hard rock

7. Independent (Voice of the Voiceless) - thrash metal/groove metal

8. Dawn of a Golden Age - black metal

9. The Rich Man - nu metal/alternative metal

10. No Way Out - alternative rock/pop rock

11. Baptized in the Redemption - groove metal/nu metal

12. Roads - acoustic ballad

13. Blood & Flames - groove metal/sludge metal/metalcore

14. Constitution Down - groove metal/thrash metal

15. I Don't Wanna Be (A Superhero) - hardcore punk

16. Army of the Sun - heavy metal/alternative metal

17. No Mas Control - groove metal/nu metal/metalcore

18. Enemy of the State - gothic metal/doom metal

Primary genres: Alternative metal, groove metal

Secondary genres: Thrash metal, metalcore

The alternative metal tag will still be kept on for this album as a general genre for many of the songs covering alt-metal, nu metal, and alt-rock, but it's as dominant as groove metal there. I'll make a judgement submission for this album soon. Anyway, does anyone here know any special releases similar to this, with dozens of members from different bands in the same record label for a special occasion? Discuss!

Sorry to hear, Xephyr. It is sad and painful to lose an essential part of your music life. It's times like this when it's good to enjoy and appreciate what we have while we still have it.

Especially since my mouse is acting up a little.

Another new list added. This one is for Felipe Machado Franco whose distinctive art adorns many power metal album covers:

https://metal.academy/lists/single/255

Hi Ben, has there been any movement on adding "Various Artists" releases to the site, such as "Metal for Muthas" or "Hell Comes to Your House"? I appreciate that the site's set-up doesn't really allow for it, but could we not just have VA set up as a band name and add releases accordingly, or would that screw something else up behind the scenes? "Metal for Muthas", especially volume one, was just so important to the spread of the NWOBHM and the popularity of bands such as Iron Maiden and Angel Witch that it seems to be a gaping omission that it isn't included here.

I just discovered something.  If there are two conjoined albums two numbers apart, like 13 and 15, if you press up on the lower number or down on the high number, the numbers will be connected properly, say 13 and 14, or 14 and 15.

Thanks for telling me how to fix this.

Yeah, it's always perplexed me that people don't care for it since it's a great piece of Fates Warning-inspired prog metal. Guess it's just because it's not quite the sound they would become.

Yeah, I think it's a little more accurate personally but would throw Nintendocore in under the Electronicore banner too if I was them as it's simply too specific.

I think nintendocore used to be under trancecore but they removed it a couple years ago.

Personally, I'll downrate anything that feels too monotone.  Length itself is only a common factor in this, but even a 20 minute album can feel samey and unimaginative.  This is part of why I consider Reign in Blood inferior to South of Heaven, and more appropriately, Pleasure to Kill under several Kreator albums.  Of course, length itself is an element that can be used properly, if the musician is good enough, like on many slower metal genres such as doom.  My favorite example of this would be The Dreadful Hours.  Or course, the absolute best I can think of is William Basinski's Disintegration Loops.

My favorite last time I listened to it is Hell - Curse and Chapter, while something that reflects more of what I listen to is Doom - Human Noise. Well-crafted technical, often veering into controlled chaos is more my forte than something that's just a perfectly crafted album of metal.

Different Hell than the one I've heard.  Classic heavy metal from the modern day is always welcome.