Shadowdoom9 (Andi)'s Forum Replies

Thanks Daniel! ...I guess.

My thoughts on some of the tracks (including my suggested ones):

Cult of Luna – “Finland” (from “Somewhere Along the Highway”, 2006)

10/10. This over 10-minute marathon is an exhausting yet spectacular post/sludge metal adventure! This epic is so organic and different from pretty much any other piece of music I've listened to. Heavy and clean parts weave all around in as many twists and turns as you would find in Isis (side-note: I listened to and reviewed one of Isis' albums, and even though it was great, I ended up feeling nothing and gave up on them shortly after). Anyway, the heavy bits aren't too massive, but definitely have draining production, raw distortion, and drenching emotion in an overwhelming combination. The production is no mistake, it has big passion. Fantastic!

Draconian – “The Apostasy Canticle” (from “Arcane Rain Fell”, 2005)

9/10. Also a massive 10-minute marathon, this one being a gothic doom anthem with more of the deep impressive growls of Anders Jacobsson, and barely any sign of Lisa Johansson's fragile voice that sounds almost like an early-teen girl in a depressed suicidal funk. There's still some of the mood-killing narrations, but not as many is in some other tracks in that album Arcane Rain Fell, so that's acceptable.

My Dying Bride – “She Is The Dark” (from “The Light At the End Of The World”, 1999)

8/10. This slightly shorter but still great death-doom track starts with the riffing going from eerie to aggressive back and forth, with Aaron Stainthorpe singing in the softer parts. Those doom legends know how to excellently mixed the tempo up and down in this song. There are great riffs and melodies from the guitars present along with keyboard atmosphere, all that along with the returning harsh vocals bring back memories of Turn Loose the Swans.

And on a different note... DANIEL!!! Did you just sneak that 37 and a half minute track "Natasha" into the playlist?!? Isn't that kind of a cheat?! Nah it's OK, it's your playlist, you can add what you want! ...Along with our suggested songs, of course. Besides, this playlist works almost as well as a typical album but double its length; a good amount of songs in typical lengths plus a supermassive epic finale. I can change the tempo to be 2x faster!! Just kidding on that last part...or AM I?? Anyway, as always, great playlist, and thanks for adding our suggestions!

I did a review, here's its summary:

After 2009's Axe to Fall where the band enlisted a small deadly army into a ferocious battle of metalcore malevolence, the tables have turned in this album All We Love We Left Behind. Converge left behind their mercenaries and went on their own quest to summon their signature intensity. Converge has been known as true masters of metalcore and its abstract subgenre mathcore. There are a few softer songs thrown in here and there, but other than that, All We Love We Leave Behind is one of the greatest non-melodic metalcore albums packed with chaotic songs that help the band show the true meaning of American metallic hardcore. Converge still reign as one of the greatest metalcore bands still living. Long live the true kings of metalcore!

5/5

I did a review, here's its summary:

After the speedy Walls of Jericho, the Keeper of the Seven Keys albums took the band's influences from the mid-80s eras of Iron Maiden and Judas Priest and refined them with a fantasy twist, still shocking the metal scene for over 3 decades. O.G. power metal fans would never skip any song in the album, though I definitely would skip two of the songs here, "Rise and Fall" and "Dr. Stein", both of which are outright cheddar cheese that hasn't aged well, and the sound effects aren't worth it. A couple other songs, "You Always Walk Alone" and the bonus track "Save Us" aren't that great in quality but still OK. But all the other songs are excellent power metal classics that are what make Keeper of the Seven Keys Part II a great start for power metal. I can see how it changed the world of metal music, but I might not give another spin until say a couple years later if I somehow have a big taste change back to classic power metal. Just ignore those "meh" songs and you have an essential power metal classic album in your hands!

4.5/5

3 suggestions??? D*mn, I have to kill some darlings from my original suggestions list. OK here's the new edition of my list of suggestions for September's Fallen playlist, please choose any of these songs:

Draconian - "The Apostasy Canticle" (from Arcane Rain Fell, 2005)

My Dying Bride - "She Is the Dark" (from The Light at the End of the World, 1999)

Type O Negative - "Creepy Green Light" (from World Coming Down, 1999)

You'd think that a highly regarded live album from Leprous would include a ton of tracks from Tall Poppy Syndrome and Bilateral, but it's almost the opposite, with most of the tracks coming from The Congregation or Coal. I really do wonder if Leprous no longer plays anything off of Tall Poppy Syndrome just because Einar isn't able to do the harsher vocals he did in the past.

Yeah they really should've played some tracks from Aeolia, Tall Poppy Syndrome and Bilateral as a more proper farewell to their early metal style, but the only songs from that earlier era that were played were two of the weaker and more forced tracks from their third album (including the demo). I guess if they were to play songs from their earlier albums, Ihsahn would have to help Einar with some of the harsh vocals.

I just gave that Leprous live album another listen and a review. It was indeed one of the greatest, most mind-blowing progressive live releases ever, but I feel like some things make the album a little empty, like for example, the absence of the over 10-minute epics from Aeolia and Tall Poppy Syndrome that would've made a more proper farewell to their earlier metal style. Oh well... Anyway, here's the original of that grand finale piece of progressive metal:

My thoughts on some of the tracks (including my suggested ones):

Amaranthe – “Afterlife” (from “The Nexus”, 2013)

8/10. I love Amaranthe, and this song exemplifies everything you want from the band. Sharp guitars and massive drums are taken to different levels by trance keys. What really stands out is the triple-vocal approach. The combination of the female singing of Elize Ryd, the male singing of Jake E. Lundberg, and the screaming of Andreas Solveström are something you would never hear from another band. This cyclone of sound makes you want to turn into Sonic and beat up Dr. Eggman's robots through the wind and light.

Bullet For My Valentine – “Tears Don’t Fall” (from “The Poison”, 2005)

10/10. A definite highlight for a couple reasons. First off, my brother was listening to this song during the beginning of my heavier modern metal phase and it reminded me of "Riot" (from Temper Temper), NOT similarly, but made me think of that song I was watching its music video about a year prior. The other reason is the instrumentation; very good riffs and great lyrics like in previous songs. The bridge gets much faster and worth headbanging, then in comes the blazing solo. Best song by the band ever!

Trivium – “In Waves” (from “In Waves”, 2011)

12/10 (not exaggerating). My favorite one from this album and possibly of metalcore in general. It starts off with an Ascendancy-like metalcore breakdown with Matt Heafy repeatedly screaming the name of the song, then it leads to a melodic Crusade-like chorus. There's also a complicated solo in the middle, but other than that, the riffs are simple yet catchy. That's what I like! During my original epic power metal taste a few years ago, I found the music video for the song "In Waves" on TV, then about a year later, the friend I told you about in my first forum thread introduced me to a heavier modern side of metal starting with this band. For that, I owe him big-time!

Darkest Hour - “For The Soul Of The Savior” (from “The Mark Of The Judas”, 2000)

7/10. This song begins their first album in a vicious bang. The hardcore-like breakdown rules, but nothing worth a twist. I chose this one because it's one of their most popular songs from that era and an easy one for listeners to get interested in the band. I probably should've added the re-recorded version with the guitar solo by Kris Norris.

Converge – “My Great Devastator (from The Poacher Diaries” split album with Agoraphobic Nosebleed, 1999)

8/10. A great devastating math/metalcore hit. The big problem is, I'm not a fan of split albums because then one of my favorite bands get paired up with a different band, and that other band is either relatively unknown or a band that is known but I'm trying to avoid it. This other band fits the latter category, grindcore grinders Agoraphobic Nosebleed. I just wish Converge would release their own half of The Poacher Diaries as a separate EP with a less explicit album cover.

August Burns Red – “Defender” (from “Guardians”, 2020)

9/10. One of my favorite metalcore songs of this year! It has fantastic drumming charisma. When that song was released as the first single of the album, people found different stuff that might end up in the album, such as a couple brutal breakdowns in the second half of the song. That shows August Burns Red's wild side, I love it!

Betraying The Martyrs – “Take Me Back” (from “The Resilient”, 2017)

8/10. A killer song from the album where Betraying the Martyrs was moving their sound from symphonic deathcore to progressive metalcore. This has the brutality of ABR's "Defender", yet also has powerful clean vocals and epic orchestral background. Though their change of style compared to previous albums is a little overly drastic.

Attila – “Middle Fingers Up” (from “About That Life”, 2013)

7/10. Interesting song you chose there, Daniel! This marks the beginning of their rap-infused metalcore phase, which I don't mind as long as they know what they're doing with their rapping, unlike say, Machine Head's Catharsis. And with a song title like "Middle Fingers Up", you know there's gonna quite some rapping and swearing going on. Personally if I were to choose an Attila song, it would probably be "Payback".

Fear, & Loathing In Las Vegas – “Virtue & Vice” (from “PHASE 2”, 2014)

10/10. I'm no fan of the Japanese techno-style of metalcore, but I decided to check out this song because someone from the outside world shared with a song by this band, Fear, & Loathing In Las Vegas. And lemme tell you, this one is PERFECT!!! Excellent smooth techno-metalcore gold!! I gotta get more of that band!

As a recent atmospheric sludge fan, I can definitely have a blast with songs like this 10-minute epic:

Hey Daniel, I took an early look at this month's Revolution playlist that it looks like you just completed (https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5QylMUK3RZhcK6gZCjqex3), and I'm glad to see that you included almost all of my song suggestions. Thanks Daniel! Nicely done! 

And now for some of my suggestions for next month's Revolution playlist, please choose any of these songs:

Amaranthe - "Trinity" (from Massive Addictive, 2014)

Betraying the Martyrs - "Man Made Disaster" (from Breathe in Life, 2011)

Bleeding Through - "Savior, Saint, Salvation" (from Portrait of the Goddess, 2002)

Converge - "I Can Tell You About Pain" (from The Dusk in Us, 2017)

Shadows Fall - "Root Bound Apollo" (from Of One Blood, 2000)

The Dillinger Escape Plan - "Farewell, Mona Lisa" (from Option Paralysis, 2010)

Trivium - "Pull Harder on the Strings of Your Martyr" (from Ascendancy, 2005)

Here are some of my suggestions for next month's Gateway playlist, please choose any of these songs:

In Flames - "I, the Mask" (from I, the Mask, 2019)

Katatonia - "Dead Letters" (from Dead End Kings, 2012)

Katatonia - "Old Heart Falls" (from The Fall of Hearts, 2016)

Here are some of my suggestions for next month's Guardians playlist, please choose any of these songs:

Blind Guardian - "Mirror Mirror" (from Nightfall in Middle-Earth, 1998)

Dark Moor - "The Dark Moor" (from Dark Moor, 2003)

DragonForce - "Through the Fire and Flames" (from Inhuman Rampage, 2006)

Here are some of my suggestions for next month's Horde playlist, please choose any of these songs:

At the Gates - "Blinded by Fear" (from Slaughter of the Soul, 1995)

Before the Dawn - "Silence" (from Soundscape of Silence, 2008)

Children of Bodom - "Mass Hypnosis" (from Something Wild, 1997)

In Flames - "Only for the Weak" (from Clayman, 2000)

The Crimson Armada - "The Serpent's Tongue" (from Guardians, 2009)

Here are some of my suggestions for next month's Infinite playlist, please choose any of these songs:

Dream Theater - "As I Am" (Train of Thought, 2003)

Mayan - "Undercurrent" (Undercurrent, 2018)

Nevermore - "The Sound of Silence" (from Dead Heart in a Dead World, 2000)

Opeth - "Demon of the Fall" (from My Arms, Your Hearse, 1998)

Pain of Salvation - "Ashes" (from The Perfect Element I, 2000)

Seventh Wonder - "The Black Parade" (from Mercy Falls, 2008)

Symphony X - "Nevermore" (from Underworld, 2015)

Here are some of my suggestions for this month's Revolution playlist in case you haven't completed it yet, please choose any of these songs:

Amaranthe - "Afterlife" (from The Nexus, 2013)

August Burns Red - "Defender" (from Guardians, 2020)

Betraying the Martyrs - "Let It Go" (from Phantom, 2014)

Betraying the Martyrs - "Take Me Back" (from The Resilient, 2017)

Bullet for My Valentine - "Tears Don't Fall" (from The Poison, 2005)

Converge - "My Great Devastator" (from The Poacher Diaries (split with Agoraphobic Nosebleed), 1999)

Darkest Hour - "For the Soul of the Savior" (from The Mark of the Judas, 2000)

Trivium - "In Waves" (from In Waves, 2011)

Straight-edge metalcore with black/death metal influences, a starting point for three members of Between the Buried and Me (Tommy Giles Rogers, Paul Waggoner, and Will Goodyear), recommended for fans of the early-2000s eras of BTBAM, Underoath, and The Black Dahlia Murder:

Great idea, Xephyr! Song suggestions for playlists would be a good clan activity for members, new or longtime, to check out other members' favorite songs way more than just the "Track of the Day" threads. I'll start with some suggestions for this month's Revolution playlist since it's not up yet. Daniel, please pick any of the songs from this list:

Amaranthe - "Afterlife" (from The Nexus, 2013)

August Burns Red - "Defender" (from Guardians, 2020)

Betraying the Martyrs - "Let It Go" (from Phantom, 2014)

Betraying the Martyrs - "Take Me Back" (from The Resilient, 2017)

Bullet for My Valentine - "Tears Don't Fall" (from The Poison, 2005)

Converge - "My Great Devastator" (from The Poacher Diaries (split with Agoraphobic Nosebleed), 1999)

Darkest Hour - "For the Soul of the Savior" (from The Mark of the Judas, 2000)

Trivium - "In Waves" (from In Waves, 2011)

As an extension, does MA really need any sub-genre that is just thematically diverse rather than musically? If so then why not go all-in and include cosmic (or space) black metal and satanic black metal?

"Satanic black metal" is a bit redundant because satanism is often an essential part of black metal, but I suppose "cosmic black metal" can be a thing if there are more well-known black metal bands with cosmic/space themes than just Arcturus and Darkspace.

Pagan black metal and Depressive black metal can both be valid subgenres. My question is, should Depressive black metal also be part of The Fallen clan, not just The North? It's kind of the second wave of black-doom with dark suicidal lyrics of death, depression and human suffering over the lo-fi high distortion and fast tremolo of black metal alongside the droning low distortion and slow timbres of doom metal. Then again, my examples of "depressive power metal" (earlier Sonata Arctica and recent Kamelot) are obviously not doomy at all...

How about depressive power metal or blackened funk metal?

If you wanna hear some power metal with depressive themes, I would suggest the earlier Sonata Arctica and the recent Kamelot. Not sure about “blackened funk metal”, but that would be an interesting as f*** mix.

I must admit that I like the fact that Metal Academy isn't too specific in it's genre selection. Do we really need to break a main genre like Doom, Death or Black metal into anything more than a handful of easily differentiated sub-genres? Surely any more specific genre indicators are better as part of a review.

Breaking down a main genre like Doom, Death or Black metal is a bit necessary because then it’s easier for people to listen to sub-genres they like from a main genre they generally avoid, like how I listen to death-doom and melodeath while avoiding the standard doom or death metal. But if you don’t feel up for the whole genre-splitting idea, that’s fine. I’m just pointing out my opinion...

Psychedelic black metal can be another valid metal genre. However, I don't know about "psych-doom", that can refer to either adding psychedelic fragments to gothic/doom metal (Tiamat's Wildhoney) or a nickname for stoner metal.

Genres should not be created based on a scene or a location, nor should they be created based on lyrical content. Genres should (in my opinion) categorise releases based on the music they contain, and nothing more. Should Goregrind be a genre or is it just Grindcore with a gore theme (I don't know, just putting it out there)? Should Enslaved and Borknagar albums be labelled as Viking Metal or are they just Black Metal albums with Viking themes?

There are definitely a couple Grindcore subgenres; Goregrind and Pornogrind, but I personally don't think those genre labels should be added here. They openly point out the lyrical content that is so gory and X-rated, and if people checking out the site who are sensitive to that kind of inappropriate sh*t see those labels, they would probably be outraged and prevent themselves and their kids from going here, and we would have much less new members in the future. Remember, I'm still living with my sometimes suspicious parents. Viking Metal is often a mix of Black Metal instrumentation with Viking themes, so some Enslaved and Borknagar albums can count as Viking Metal, I guess? But I agree that just because a band has Viking themes, doesn't mean they can be labeled Viking Metal. Death metal bands can have Viking themes, such as Amon Amarth and Unleashed, but since those are probably the only two prominent bands with that combination, "Viking Death Metal" wouldn't cut it as a subgenre.

Do we include NWOBHM as a subgenre? It will mean that releases from that movement have the potential to not come up in heavy metal searches &, despite the fact that the New Wave definitely has its own unique attributes & characteristics, it also covers such a diverse range of sounds from speed metal to traditional doom metal. I'd suggest omitting it.

Agreed, Daniel. NWOBHM is more a wave than a genre. Enough said...

I love it! With that new upcoming feature, it'll be easier for Metal Academy members to find specific subgenres they like in genres they would otherwise generally avoid, like if I wanna find releases with subgenres such as Death-Doom, Melodic Death Metal, etc. To be honest, I think of the term "Classic" more in terms of time, rather than genre, like the "classic" albums would be for releases that are in the earliest origin eras of their respective genres to which they helped popularize said genres. Y'know, their "Early Days", "1st Decade/Era", like in Clan Challenges (for example; https://metal.academy/lists/single/22, https://metal.academy/lists/single/28, https://metal.academy/lists/single/35, https://metal.academy/lists/single/41). And of course, the "Traditional" label was taken by Traditional Doom Metal. So the term I would prefer is..."Standard", as in "Standard Death Metal", "Standard Doom Metal", "Standard Black Metal", etc.

While I'm on the subject of doom metal sub-genres, would you consider Epic Doom Metal as valid? This isn't recognised by RYM, but I believe there are enough adherents and it is distinguishable sufficiently from other doom metal sub-genres to justify inclusion on MA.

Epic Doom Metal really is an actual doom metal subgenre. I'm guessing RYM didn't feel like using that subgenre because of the overuse of the term "Epic" to describe other genres for some bands in websites such as the Metal Archives (for example; "Bal-Sagoth = Symphonic/Epic Black Metal", "Battlelore = Epic Symphonic Metal", "Dethlehem = Epic Melodic Death Metal", "Ensiferum = Epic Folk Metal", "Manilla Road = Epic Heavy/Power Metal"). Yeah, overly adding the word "Epic" to genres for bands that are already epic enough can make that word a little less...epic. But if we are gonna add genre terms that are different from RYM such as "Standard", then why not? I'm fine with Epic Doom Metal being a valid genre here!

It's going to take me a while to get this up and running, and I may not be adding as many releases to the site as I normally do for a while (I'll prioritise requests, so keep them coming).

You'll still add requested releases, Ben? Sweet!! I made a couple band/album requests the other day (Prayer for Cleansing and the new Kamelot live album I Am the Empire – Live from the 013), but I still haven't seen them here yet so I'm not too sure if you saw my requests or not. Could you please add them as soon as you can? Thanks! Can't wait to see them here, along with the exciting upcoming Filterable Subgenres feature...

Update on my list (still alphabetized):

1. All That Remains - Overcome (2008)

2. Amaranthe - Amaranthe (2011)

3. Anata - The Conductor's Departure (2006)

4. At the Gates - Slaughter of the Soul (1995)

5. August Burns Red - Constellations (2009)

6. Ava Inferi - Onyx (2011)

7. Before the Dawn - Rise of the Phoenix (2012)

8. Between the Buried and Me - Colors (2007)

9. Bleeding Through - Love Will Kill All (2018)

10. Botch - We are the Romans (1999)

11. Bullet for My Valentine - The Poison (2005)

12. Charon - Songs for the Sinners (2005)

13. Converge - Jane Doe (2001)

14. Cynic - Focus (1993)

15. Darkest Hour - Hidden Hands of a Sadist Nation (2003)

16. Demon Hunter - The World is a Thorn (2010)

17. Draconian - Arcane Rain Fell (2005)

18. Edge of Sanity - Crimson I+II (1996/2003) (both work better as one full 2-part suite)

19. God Forbid - IV: Constitution of Treason (2005)

20. Gojira - L'Enfant Sauvage (2012)

21. HIM - Venus Doom (2007)

22. Ice Nine Kills - The Silver Scream (2018)

23. In Flames - The Jester Race (2006)

24. In Mourning - Shrouded Divine (2008)

25. Katatonia - Brave Murder Day (1996)

26. Lamb of God - Ashes of the Wake (2004)

27. Leprous - Tall Poppy Syndrome (2009)

28. Lord - Fallen Idols (2019)

29. Make Them Suffer - Neverbloom (2012)

30. Mastodon - Leviathan (2004)

31. Maudlin of the Well - Bath (2001)

32. Meshuggah - Catch Thirty-Three (2005)

33. Moonspell - Irreligious (1996)

34. My Dying Bride - Turn Loose the Swans (1993)

35. Ne Obliviscaris - Portal of I (2012)

36. Opeth - Blackwater Park (2001)

37. Paradise Lost - Draconian Times (1995)

38. Persefone - Spiritual Migration (2013)

39. Protest the Hero - Kezia (2005)

40. Revocation - Existence is Futile (2009)

41. Sentenced - North From Here (1993)

42. Seventh Wonder - Mercy Falls (2008)

43. Shadows Fall - The War Within (2004)

44. The Contortionist - Exoplanet (2010)

45. The Dillinger Escape Plan - Calculating Infinity (1999)

46. The Ocean - Pelagial (2013)

47. Threat Signal - Under Reprisal (2006)

48. Tiamat - Wildhoney (1994)

49. Trivium - In Waves (2011)

50. Type O Negative - October Rust (1996)

51. Veil of Maya - [id] (2010)

52. Vektor - Black Future (2009)

53. Underoath - Lost in the Sound of Separation (2008)

54. Unearth - The Oncoming Storm (2004)

55. Within the Ruins - Elite (2013)

Some of you might know I'm a fan of bands like Converge and The Dillinger Escape Plan, which is why Daniel made the right choice of recommending me that Botch album. Also as much as I like this song "Conduit", have any of you noticed that the brief riff fiddling that appears a few times sounds exactly like that of the last part of My Dying Bride's "Vast Choirs"? Seriously, it does! I think I'm the only one who has noticed that because of my interest in both metalcore and death-doom.

Now that I think about it, you're probably right Daniel. I think I was a little shocked by this album being more intense than most albums from my favorite metalcore bands that the genre that came to my mind was grindcore. There are a couple songs that aren't grindcore at all for the most part, such as its ending track "Sin in My Heart". However, in case a few people here say otherwise, let's see what the Hall has to say...

Here's my short summary:

After the Burial is a great melodic/technical death/metalcore band with intense breakdowns. You know how in France, they refer to sun-rain as "the devil beating his wife and marrying his daughter"? Well...the devil is Meshuggah, the wife is Cynic, and the daughter is Maya (Veil of Maya). And a child was born as a blessing, After the Burial! Yeah, that seems like a somewhat wrong story, but I can't think of any other description to sum this up. I reviewed the remastered version with vocals by Anthony Notormaso, instead of the original vocalist Grant Luoma whom I guess people didn't like. I like the off-beat guitar weirdness by Justin Lowe, who was a real djent guitar hero. Despite the incredible precision of the drumming, it's actually programmed, even in the remastered version. Also, the sound might be a bit scratchy, but it gives a cold feeling that helps the album stay awesome. Rareform is fantastic!! Not only would Veil of Maya fans love this, but also Meshuggah fans. Besides all that djent, it has everything to expect from deathcore and metalcore; quick solos, searing melodies, and earth-quaking breakdowns. After the Burial is a band I would recommend to a lot of metalheads out there! RIP Justin Lowe

5/5

Some of you might know I'm a fan of bands like Veil of Maya (one of their songs below) and Within the Ruins, which is why I decided to review After the Burial's Rareform.

No problem, Daniel! I shall review that Gulch album, plus that After the Burial album Rareform because I'm a fan of a couple of those bands you mentioned:

Djent-fueled Minneapolis deathcore for fans of Veil Of Maya, Within The Ruins & Rings Of Saturn.

With many of my favorite metal albums from exactly 15 years ago (https://metal.academy/forum/23/thread/297), sometimes older, I kinda have the same reaction as Sonny, though that doesn't make me feel old as much as 15-years-old metalheads having more talent than I wish I could (hello, Alien Weaponry). Great feature, by the way, Ben!

Epic symphonic deathcore to delight fans of Septicflesh, Winds of Plague, and a bit of Jen Ledger from Skillet: