Metal Academy Radio Playlist Suggestions - The Fallen Edition

So I'm sure you're probably aware that we've been trialing a new concept through our Metal Academy Radio Spotify playlists recently, right? Well some of our regular contributors & I have been discussing the idea of our clan members making a contribution to the monthly playlists by making recommendations on tracks for inclusion. To make it a true playlist, we'd encourage you to stick predominantly to your favourite tracks from releases you listen to across the course of each month rather than something you enjoyed some time ago as this will make the tracklistings somewhat of a reflection of our member's current playlists which was always our long-term intention. It can be new, old, classic or underground... whatever you happen to be digging at the time as long as it fits in with the clan's designated subgenres. At this stage we're going with a policy of only members of the associated clan being eligible to make submissions for the relevant playlists so that they're a truly clan-based undertaking.

So please treat this thread as your opportunity to contribute guys. We need to make sure that these playlists offer a broad cross-section of the clan's musical footprint so we can't promise that everything will make the final cut but let's see what ya got!

I don't have a Spotify subscription, but I will try to replicate the playlist using the means at my disposal. For what it's worth here's a few suggestions:

Esoteric - Descent from A Pyrrhic Existence (2019)

Colosseum - Towards the Infinite from Chapter 2: Numquam (2009)

Electric Wizard - Supercoven from the Supercoven EP (1998)

Cathedral - Schizoid Puppeteer from the Serpent's Gold compilation album (2010)

MSW - Humanity from Obliviosus (2020)

Solstice - Cromlech from New Dark Age (1998)

Winter - Servants of the Warsmen from Into Darkness (1990)

Sleep - Dragonaut from Holy Mountain (1992)

Pallbearer - Foreigner from Sorrow and Extinction (2012)

OK, so I didn't realise that there was a free option on Spotify!

Now I do, so I'm good to go...

Andi, Ben, Chris Van Etten.... I'm just putting the September list together at the moment. Got any track suggestions from stuff you've listened to in August? Let's try to keep it to a maximum of 3 suggestions each so that we can all get some play time.

3 suggestions you say? Alright then... but you know I'm going big... and don't assume that limitation will stop me from including Shape of Despair. There are three doom albums released in the last few years that are (IMO) deserving of 5 stars. I'll take this opportunity to hopefully introduce them to others.

3 suggestions??? D*mn, I have to kill some darlings from my original suggestions list. OK here's the new edition of my list of suggestions for September's Fallen playlist, please choose any of these songs:

Draconian - "The Apostasy Canticle" (from Arcane Rain Fell, 2005)

My Dying Bride - "She Is the Dark" (from The Light at the End of the World, 1999)

Type O Negative - "Creepy Green Light" (from World Coming Down, 1999)

Hi guys. I'm looking to have the playlists ready for release on the first day of every month moving forwards so I'm getting organised early. These are the tracks that I have leftover from last month which will be considered for inclusion again:

Sonny92

Esoteric – “Descent” (from “A Pyrrhic Existence”, 2019) Funeral doom metal 

Colosseum – “Towards The Infinite” (from “Chapter 2: Numquam”, 2009) Funeral doom metal 

M.S.W. – “Humanity” (from “Obliviosus”, 2020) Doom metal 

Winter – “Servants Of The Warsmen” (from “Into Darkness”, 1990) Death doom metal 

Ben

The Ruins Of Beverast – “Surtur Barbaar Maritime” (from “Exuvia”, 2017) Death doom metal 

Andi

Type O Negative – “Creepy Green Light” (from “World Coming Down”, 1999) Gothic metal 

I think that should cover us for funeral doom & doom/death. My own submissions sit in the atmospheric sludge metal, drone metal & traditional doom metal space this month. Any more submissions before I finalize the playlist? 

P.S. The Electric Wizard & Solstice tracks that Sonny suggested aren't available on Spotify so can't be considered.

Also, moving forwards I'd suggest simply dropping individual tracks in here whenever you discover them instead of waiting for me to ask as that will give me the most flexibility to do the playlists whenever I get the time & without having to wait to see if anyone responds.

OK, time for my suggestions for October's playlist. Daniel, please choose these songs:

Solstafir - "I Myself the Visionary Head" (from Masterpiece of Bitterness, 2005)

My Dying Bride - "Catherine Blake" (from Songs of Darkness, Words of Light, 2004)

Type O Negative - "Creepy Green Light" (from World Coming Down, 1999)

Andi, I've made a decision to change a few things about the playlist inclusions after September & one of them is to implement a "no tracks over 20 minutes in duration" policy. The reaction to the Pig Destroyer track seems to have been divisive & if you don't like a track of that magnitude then it's taken up too much of the playlist for you to get the full value out of it in my opinion. So feel free to change your submission.

Daniel, whilst I understand why you have implemented a twenty minute rule for track durations, I feel that you are arbitrarily limiting the playlist, especially in a clan like the Fallen where I believe most adherents have to have a more patient approach to their listening due to the very nature of the music they favour. Surely it would be better to judge a track's impact on a case by case basis without applying pre-determined restrictions. Isn't extreme metal about defying accepting norms, not being restricted by them? Is a nineteen minute track really more acceptable than a 23 minute track if the longer is better? Funeral Doom and Drone especially rely on lengthy compositions to create an atmosphere and would be least well-served by the rule. Of course you couldn't include something like Mirror Reaper, but surely common sense has to be assumed. 

That Pig Destroyer track was always going to be controversial as I think you knew when you included it in the playlist, but by adding it at the end of the list anyone could say, I've heard enough and just end the session. I know I made a negative comment about it, but that was unrelated to it's length, unfortunately it was just too experimental for my taste, but I don't regret listening to it. I am much more interested in hearing tracks I'm not already familiar with on the playlist and would prefer to find one thirty minute killer than half a dozen meh tracks. There's no need to include ultra-long tracks every month, but why not occasionally if an individual track merits it? You can't please all the people all the time and not everyone will love every track, but why should they? If the purpose of the playlists is to showcase the clans then why ignore the fact that The Fallen often involves lengthy compositions? Sorry to go on, but as you may guess I am extremely passionate about doom metal and I think it needed saying.

That's an interesting way to think of it Sonny. Our stance isn't done & dusted on this by any means & we're very open to the feelings of the clan members however there are a few things that we need to take into account here.

Firstly, what is the intent of the playlists? Well they're really intended to a) attract people to that particular clan & to Metal Academy in general & b) highlight new & interesting sounds to existing clan members. If there is always a risk that some people won't like or can't deal with a 20+ minute track (& I think there's a definite percentage of people that fall into that category despite having chosen The Fallen as one of their clans) then I would suggest that the longer the track is the more likely it is to be make or break for that person continuing to explore their initial interest. I think it's very relevant that both yourself & Andi struggled with the Pig Destroyer track & I don't think it's important as to why. What's important is that it proved how different people's tastes can be within a clan. Sure, I knew the length would be a challenge but I actually didn't think the experimental aspect would be a concern as I genuinely find that track to be the best thing I've heard this year. I absolutely love it & it had never occurred to me that it was all that experimental to be honest. I simply wanted people to hear what I regard as one of the most criminally underrated works I've ever encountered. Clearly it wasn't for everyone & that's worth considering as I want a diverse playlist that caters for everyone as much as possible. That track completely dominated the playlist in that it only allowed me to include ten tracks across two hours. The playlists for The Horde are sitting in the 30+ tracks by comparison & it doesn't matter that a lot of people haven't liked the gorenoise tracks so much because they're only short & don't make up a great percentage of the play time. Let's just say that I include Sleep's "Dopesmoker" as the outer extreme, I think there's a very strong chance that I'll lose both Andi & Ben's interest for a good portion of that hour. Wouldn't I be better served to go with something a little less daunting to ensure greater engagement? I dunno. I'm open to people's thoughts here.

Secondly, your comments about funeral doom metal & drone metal are interesting because those are the two most niche subgenres in The Fallen & are the most likely to put people off with lengthy over-indulgences in my opinion. What I found after my initial August playlists was that if a playlist is to be a true representation of the clan then it needs to include all subgenres in roughly accurate proportions. By my calculations those two subgenres combined make up just 8% of The Fallen's overall release base & that would leave about 5 minutes for each so if we're to include a 30 minute funeral doom epic then it's at the expense of something else that's potentially a more prominent player in the makeup of the clan like sludge metal, doom metal or gothic metal. Now I'm not suggesting that we limit those two subgenres to that extent but is it really that important to go with a 25 minute epic? I mean there's an absolute tonne of material out there. I took into account my experience with these subgenres & my call at a 20 minute limit was based on including the vast majority of every subgenre. Surely there is enough quality funeral doom metal that doesn't exceed that mark, isn't there? Please tell me if I'm wrong as you're certainly more experienced in that space. I can attest to the fact that 20+ minute tracks are certainly the exception rather than the rule with drone metal which is something I'm passionate about. Even Boris' "Feedbacker" is broken down into five separate tracks on the album in order to make it more palatable. I've noticed that the latest releases of Edge Of Sanity's "Crimson" do the same & I'd consider including certain sections.

If we use Andi as an example too, he's a genuine The Fallen member these days in that he utterly adores gothic metal, death doom metal & atmospheric sludge metal. However, he doesn't seem to be very interested in funeral doom metal or drone metal & I don't generally see him giving those subgenres much time, most likely because they don't offer him much appeal. For Ben, it's drone metal & stoner metal. For you it's gothic metal. Which subgenres we're talking about doesn't really matter though. What's important is that it shows that you can be a genuine clan member & still be isolated by over-indulgent track selection. Andi's Estatic Fear selection is also an example. My experience with Estatic Fear has not been enjoyable & if that's an accurate depiction of what I could expect from his submission then I feel that others may struggle with it too. I have to ask what the point of including it is when we could go with something less imposing from that artist that doesn't take a huge chunk out of our play time & therefore gives us more of a chance to draw people into Metal Academy.

And finally, I want to categorically rule a line through people trying to dominate our playlists by intentionally submitting lengthy tracks & I could see that being an issue in the future once I started thinking about it. In fact it could be viewed that I did that myself in September.

If we were to judge submissions on a case by case basis without any hard & fast rules, what would the criteria be for going either way & who would make that call?

What does everyone else think on this topic?

I guess we're coming from differing viewpoints on this one, Daniel. It never even crossed my mind that Funeral Doom was considered a niche sub-genre within The Fallen as, to me, it is probably the purest expression of Doom Metal. I suppose I must accept that the more palatable sub-genres like Gothic Metal will dominate the clan and adjust my view of what that means accordingly. And yes, there are definitely plenty of quality Funeral Doom tracks under twenty minutes in length. 

Secondly, are we also assuming that most people are put off by long track lengths or are they equally as likely to have their mind blown by them? I never really hear classical music fans complaining that Beethoven's symphonies are "OK, but a bit too long". Bell Witch's Mirror Reaper made an impressive degree of crossover into more mainstream acceptance and that's over eighty minutes long.

Lastly, I never considered that anyone would think I was trying to dominate the playlist by suggesting a lengthy track or two and if that is the case I apologise, that was never my intention. Anything I have suggested, as with yourself and the Pig Destroyer track, is because I think it is awesome and believe others would be stoked to hear it too. As I said earlier, I don't listen to the playlists to hear stuff I'm already familiar with - I can listen to that any time - I want to hear something unfamiliar that lights my fire such as the Pelican and Cult of Luna tracks on August and September's playlists and my suggestions are based on that desire for others and nothing more.

I can definitely see the sense in your feeling that funeral doom metal is the purest expression of doom metal Sonny. I see brutal death metal as the purest expression of death metal in a very similar way.

No we're not assuming that most people are put off by long track lengths. Just by long tracks in subgrenes that they have no time for. In saying that, there are definitely people out there that struggle to maintain their attention for the duration of a long track regardless of subgenre but I wouldn't say that this is the majority by any stretch.

I don't think anyone would mistake your adoration for lengthy doom metal excursions for an attempt to dominate the playlist. The thought never crossed my mind to be honest. My comments were based around the fact that I felt guilty for taking up a much greater portion of the run time with my selections & wondered whether people might consciously do that after seeing one of the Metal Academy administrators doing it. I came to the conclusion that they probably would so I wanted to put it out there early that this practice is frowned upon moving forwards.

Type O Negative - "Halloween in Heaven" (from Dead Again, 2007) (Since it's gonna be October, that last song would fit greatly in the playlist, so please remove my earlier requested Type O Negative song ("Creepy Green Light") and add this one instead.)

Andi, this track is not on Spotify as far as I can see..

In light of the new rules I will replace Esoteric's Descent with Rotting in Dereliction which is also from A Pyrrhic Existence.

Also we don't seem to have stoner metal covered so would like to suggest Acid King's 2 Wheel Nation from III.

Type O Negative - "Halloween in Heaven" (from Dead Again, 2007) (Since it's gonna be October, that last song would fit greatly in the playlist, so please remove my earlier requested Type O Negative song ("Creepy Green Light") and add this one instead.)

Andi, this track is not on Spotify as far as I can see..

Hmmm... Is "Creepy Green Light" available on Spotify? (see my (again) edited list above)

Yeah it is. :)

OK, I've just completed the October playlist. Thanks for all your contributions.

Damn. Missed out! Will have to get in early next month.

Regarding 20+ minute tracks, having read through the comments and given it some thought, perhaps it can be more of a case by case thing Daniel. Sonny is certainly right that funeral doom and drone get the short end of the stick with the rule, particularly the latter. Maybe this can be more of an encouragement than a rule? If there are bands out there that rarely release tracks under 20 minutes then perhaps exceptions could be made? If you do choose to include one, I think putting it last on the playlist is the way to do it. It's not overly disruptive then and listeners can just choose to stop it whenever they choose. Either way it should be a rarity. I'm a MASSIVE funeral doom fan and I reckon it's a pretty low percentage of tracks that have that sort of length. People can use common sense when recommending tracks.

The playlists are definitely Daniel's baby though. I'm easy either way.

Too late for October I know, but for future reference I would like to suggest Solitary White Ship from The Drowning's 2008 album This Bleak Descent along with The Bastard Wind from the amazing collaboration album between Bell Witch and Aerial Ruin, The Stygian Bough Volume I.

Please get your submissions (maximum three each) in by 15th October if you want them considered for inclusion in the November playlist. I wouldn't bother submitting any death doom metal or funeral doom metal tracks as I've got those subgenres covered with material that was leftover from previous months.

Sonny, I've already got a couple of your tracks ear-marked so maybe just one more from you.