Shadowdoom9 (Andi)'s Forum Replies
An amazing metal video game soundtrack, with some slight struggle that I've managed to overcome. Cheers for the rec, Daniel! 4.5/5.
With all these metalcore bands I've discovered throughout last year and this month, I've decided that it's time to catch up with songs from the band I've discovered and enjoyed since in a few of the earlier Revolution playlists. So here are my thoughts on the tracks I'm catching up with:
Skycamefalling – “With Paper Wings” (from “10.21”, 2000)
5/5. Kicking up the action is probably this band's best hit, filled with driving guitar intensity, one of my favorite metalcore songs to remember! I might just feel up to screaming along to the chorus. After grabbing your throat throughout the song, there's a beautiful piano outro that would inspire hundreds of other bands to add something like that to their songs.
Every Time I Die – “Map Change” (from “Low Teens”, 2016)
4.5/5. This one I also love, especially the lyrics! The music is like a more metallic Mínus.
A killer song from one of the earlier Revolution playlists I'm catching up with:
I just read Vinny's review for Voivod's Killing Technology and remembered some amazing progressive thrash highlights from that album like the opening title track:
Ex-Dark Tranquillity guitarist Fredrik Johansson passed away from cancer the other day. Not only on my 23rd birthday (January 25), but also exactly 23 years after he left the band in the time between the recording and the release of his last album with the band, Projector. The rest of his life since his departure from Dark Tranquillity was exactly equivalent in time to the first 23 years of my life. A sad but true coincidence. RIP ); Here's his guest soloing appearance in a song from one of the last melodeath bands I enjoyed, In Flames:
Impressive German power metal from a bunch of tech death masters.
Progressive-influenced technical neo-classical power metal for a wild epic blast! Should appeal to Guardians members looking for a diverse mix of Blind Guardian, Yngwie Malmsteen, and classic Dream Theater.
Progressive-influenced technical neo-classical power metal for a wild epic blast! Cheers for the rec, Daniel! 4.5/5
Honestly, there are way better things to spend your time than to listen to this sh*tter from Underoath's poor alt-rock excuse of a comeback:
Time for a "Tracks of the Day" Underoath backstory. Back when my taste in power metal was still dominant, I found a few Underoath music videos on TV:
Those were some of the most killer songs I've heard and music videos I've watched, but I wasn't ready for this metalcore/post-hardcore style. Fast forward to 3 years before today, I was already in the metalcore zone, when I found this awesome song:
But the source of where I found this song is from somewhere unexpected, this video from one of my favorite YouTube animators TheOdd1sOut (go to the 7-minute mark):
When I heard that song in this video, the next thing I knew, all those Underoath music video memories rapidly returned to my mind and I've realized that I had never actually gotten into listening to that band until then, and it was the perfect time with my expanding taste in metalcore. So I gave the actual song a full listen and it really sealed that deal. I finally started listening to Underoath full-time, and the rest is history. Thank you, Underoath, TheOdd1sOut, and Mr. Poe! I'm currently working on completing my Underoath review journey with their two albums since their reformation, so stay tuned...
No problem, Daniel, I'll try that one soon.
I honestly believe Underoath's Define the Great Line qualifies as metalcore (see here: https://metal.academy/forum/28/thread/1105), which is why I'm sharing this in the Revolution thread. I enjoy very much the second half of that album (from track 6 onwards) (one of those songs I'll later show its music video that I found on TV many years ago), but the first half is still as much of a mess as the majority of They're Only Chasing Safety, with this 5th track being a pointless minimalistic interlude:
Thanks, Sonny!
I've actually enjoyed the majority of Underoath's softer while still metal turn, The Changing of Times, with cool songs like this one, for fans of 7 Angels 7 Plagues, and the 2002 albums by Hopesfall and This Day Forward:
Happy two days after your birthday, Sonny, and once again, so sorry to hear your dad's gone. RIP... I just had my birthday yesterday, and on that day, I was in an interview/photoshoot for the book series that I write, in support of a diversity campaign from a company who insist they be kept private for the time being. So that's a unique start of the next age chapter of my life.
This epic is strong enough to knock that other song above off its reign. Too bad Underoath would never make long 11-minute epics like this ever again:
Pardon my anti-Christian language, but this f***ing piece of pro-life sh*t can burn in Hell:
Christian progressive black/death metal-inspired metalcore from back when Underoath were still in the underground. This is for fans of Prayer for Cleansing, and the late-90s eras of Eighteen Visions and Embodyment:
Update on my list (still alphabetized and still at Bruno Terrosa's 55):
1. Accept - Metal Heart (1985)
2. All That Remains - Overcome (2008)
3. Annihilator - Alice in Hell (1989)
4. Attack Attack! - Attack Attack! (2010)
5. August Burns Red - Constellations (2009)
6. Bleeding Through - Love Will Kill All (2018)
7. Born of Osiris - The Discovery (2011)
8. Botch - We are the Romans (1999)
9. Bring Me the Horizon - Sempiternal (2013)
10. Bullet for My Valentine - The Poison (2005)
11. Car Bomb - Mordial (2019)
12. Converge & Chelsea Wolfe - Bloodmoon: I (2021)
13. Coroner - Mental Vortex (1991)
14. Dark Angel - Time Does Not Heal (1991)
15. Demolition Hammer - Tortured Existence (1990)
16. Devin Townsend - Empath (2019)
17. Dir En Grey - Uroboros (2008)
18. Disillusion - Back to Times of Splendor (2004)
19. Fates Warning - The Spectre Within (1985)
20. God Forbid - IV: Constitution of Treason (2005)
21. Green Carnation - Light of Day, Day of Darkness (2001)
22. Hopesfall - No Wings to Speak of (2001)
23. Horse the Band - Desperate Living (2009)
24. Ice Nine Kills - The Silver Scream (2018)
25. Karnivool - Themata (2005)
26. Leprous - Tall Poppy Syndrome (2009)
27. Liquid Tension Experiment - Liquid Tension Experiment 3 (2021)
28. Lord - Fallen Idols (2019)
29. Make Them Suffer - Neverbloom (2012)
30. Maudlin of the Well - Bath (2001)
31. Memphis May Fire - The Hollow (2011)
32. Meshuggah - Catch Thirty-Three (2005)
33. Motionless in White - Creatures (2010)
34. Ne Obliviscaris - Portal of I (2012)
35. Neurosis - Through Silver in Blood (1996)
36. Parkway Drive - Horizons (2007)
37. Plini - Impulse Voices (2020)
38. Prayer for Cleansing - Rain in Endless Fall (1999)
39. Protest the Hero - Kezia (2005)
40. Psyopus - Our Puzzling Encounters Considered (2007)
41. Queensryche - The Warning (1984)
42. Seventh Wonder - Mercy Falls (2008)
43. Silent Planet - Iridescent (2021)
44. Skycamefalling - 10.21 (2000)
45. Skyharbor - Blinding White Noise: Illusion and Chaos (2012)
46. Structures - Life Through a Window (2014)
47. Textures - Dualism (2011)
48. The Dillinger Escape Plan - Calculating Infinity (1999)
49. Trivium - In Waves (2011)
50. Veil of Maya - [id] (2010)
51. Vektor - Black Future (2009)
52. Voivod - Dimension Hatross (1988)
53. Wage War - Manic (2021)
54. Wuthering Heights - The Shadow Cabinet (2006)
55. X Japan - Art of Life (1993)
Here's my updated list:
Beginning oldies (1978-1989)/B.M. (Before Metalcore):
1978: Riot - Rock City (yes I know, everyone says the year is 1977, but I don't quite suspect that as its true release year, more info about that in this separate thread reply: https://metal.academy/forum/28/thread/362#topic_6048)
1979: Riot - Narita
1980: Accept - I'm a Rebel
1981: Accept - Breaker
1982: Virgin Steele - Virgin Steele
1983: Savatage - Sirens
1984: Queensryche - The Warning
1985: Fates Warning - The Spectre Within
1986: Crimson Glory - Crimson Glory
1987: Savatage - Hall of the Mountain King
1988: Riot - Thundersteel
1989: Running Wild - Death or Glory
Old golden classics (1990-1997)/Humble metalcore beginnings:
1990: Demolition Hammer - Tortured Existence
1991: Dark Angel - Time Does Not Heal
1992: Sadus - A Vision of Misery
1993: X Japan - Art of Life
1994: Savatage - Handful of Rain
1995: Savatage - Dead Winter Dead
1996: Converge - Petitioning the Empty Sky
1997: Bruce Dickinson - Accident of Birth
Millennium transition highlights (1998-2005)/Light of day-seeing metalcore classics:
1998: Meshuggah - Chaosphere
1999: Botch - We are the Romans
2000: Skycamefalling - 10.21
2001: Converge - Jane Doe
2002: Hopesfall - The Satellite Years
2003: The Lord Weird Slough Feg - Traveller
2004: Wuthering Heights - Far From the Madding Crowd
2005: Trivium - Ascendancy
Modern favorites (2006-2013)/Rise of the full Revolution:
2006: Wuthering Heights - The Shadow Cabinet
2007: The Dillinger Escape Plan - Ire Works
2008: Textures - Silhouettes
2009: August Burns Red - Constellations
2010: Attack Attack! - Attack Attack!
2011: Trivium - In Waves
2012: Skyharbor - Blinding White Noise: Illusion and Chaos
2013: We Came as Romans - Tracing Back Roots
The best of the most recent (2014-2021)/A greater new uprising:
2014: Structures - Life Through a Window
2015: Wage War - Blueprints
2016: Car Bomb - Meta
2017: Trivium - The Sin and the Sentence
2018: Silent Planet - When the End Began
2019: Devin Townsend - Empath
2020: Trivium - What the Dead Men Say
2021: Trivium - In the Court of the Dragon
With the last third of 2021 being filled with the greatest amount of amazing new releases to end that year, that also marks the grand ending to that 8-year phase in my opinion, with this year 2022 possibly starting a new one.
2022 albums I'm looking forward to getting:
Underoath - Voyeurist
Persefone - Metanoia
Cult of Luna - The Long Road North
Voivod - Synchro Anarchy
Annihilator - Metal II (nearly entire re-recording of their Metal album)
Animals as Leaders - Parrhesia
Meshuggah - Immutable
Memphis May Fire - Remade in Misery
Check out the description for my latest video (my last black metal one and the only one I plan to keep):
Oh I see. I didn’t know about the “nic” nickname, so I tried looking up the other band in the split release, Old Soul, but they didn’t have a Metal Archives article.
46. Old Soul / ██████ (NORTH)
Does that white rectangle mean that band's name is so offensive (probably more than A.C.) that they had to censor it everywhere, or are they literally called "White Rectangle" or "White Bar"? That would be hard to search for on Google, so we may never know.
Here are my thoughts:
That Equilibrium track... UGH, it's that album where they switched from their epic melodeath/symphonic/folk metal roots to this sh*t! This one seems closer to those roots though. I say it's symphonic power metal with the death growls happening as frequently as some of Epica's greatest hits, so it has some Guardians potential.
Passcode sounds closer to trancecore in the same vein as Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, though with a Babymetal-inspired Japanese girl lineup. This can definitely stay in The Revolution, but under the trancecore banner.
DOLL$BOXX, yet another Japanese female band with the trance metal label. In my opinion, this sounds like the synth-powered alt-power metal sound that Machine Supremacy has, though not as 8-bitty, and with more emphasis on the "alt-" and a bit of screaming. The Gateway it is for this track, then.
So, if we include the tracks from the previous round, including the bonus Amaranthe track I suggested, my voting points are: The Guardians - 4, The Revolution - 2, The Gateway - 1. It is most likely for trance metal to be suited nicely in The Guardians as a power metal genre, despite slight potential in The Revolution. Let's see what the rest thinks first.
I found this very rare demo from Underoath. It was recorded in early 2003 as their final recording with original unclean vocalist Dallas Taylor before he left and was replaced by Spencer Chamberlain. This demo can be considered the "Samael's Rebellion" of Underoath, serving as a stylistic bridge between their mildly successful yet overlooked 3rd album and their commercial breakthrough 4th album. The 3rd song (and Dallas' very last with the band), "Heatherwood" even sounds like an early take on "Reinventing Your Exit" from that 4th album, They're Only Chasing Safety (Ben, please add that 4th album and the rest of their non-metal albums alongside their brand-new metalcore comeback Voyeurist, as soon as you can, thanks!).
With their lead vocalist Keith Buckley leaving the band for his mental health and their UK tour being cancelled due to the virus rising there, Every Time I Die decided that their time is up. They've gone out together rather than announcing their split separately (check their Instagram). RIP
A sh*tty ballad that I think should not exist:
Making my way through downtown memories of my pre-metal alt-past with a couple albums, the former of which my brother and I remember this track well:
Metal is no longer at the groundbreaking classic heights of the 80s, but it's still growing healthily as one of the most diverse music genres around. Personally, the 2020s might just be an epic decade for the metal that I enjoy. With so many mostly great albums I've discovered in 2020 and 2021, especially in the last third of the latter year, this seems like a promising start to an era that will make sure metal doesn't die right off like it almost did in the 90s. Here's to greater years of metal in the future!
In my opinion Trance Metal fits much better in The Gateway because Alternative Metal is usually what's given as a catch-all to "Pop Metal," which is what Trance Metal is usually going for. I get the comparisons to Symphonic and Power Metal, as especially the Japanese strain of Trance Metal is heavily influenced by the styles, but I don't think Trance Metal at all fits aesthetically with The Guardians (not that I'm a kvltist or anything, but the name of the clan implies a sound closer to "original" Heavy Metal, and Trance Metal is anything but). Babymetal should for sure be in The Gateway as they are certainly Alternative Metal even when not doing Trance Metal. Just my two cents though.
Interesting perspective. Do you have some examples of some Pop Metal records that have been lumped into The Gateway purely as a catch-all rather than because they possess an alternative inspired sound? It's not really my area of expertise so I'm interested to see exactly what you're talking about.
Coldrain has a good example of a more poppy alt-metalcore sound.
Ever since I started assembling the Revolution playlists, I've found a great amount of metalcore band discoveries! Here are 7 I've started listening to, from the regular melodic-ish metalcore:
To the more avant-prog-ish metalcore:
And the wild experimental mathcore:
And besides those 7 bands, I finally got the new Underoath album Voyeurist, a true return to this band's metalcore sound from the late 2000s, with some such highlights including the climax of this 7-minute epic:
Here are my thoughts:
Babymetal performs speedy trancecore instrumentation similar to Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, but the vocals are mostly anime-girl singing, and the only screams I hear are in the background during the breakdown. It's not as power metal as "Road of Resistance", but it's certainly the closest to dance-pop-infused symphonic power metal, so this track belongs to The Guardians.
Blood Stain Child is known for mixing melodeath with genuine trance. However, like the Babymetal track, this one has nothing to do with melodeath or metalcore and is closer to trance-y symphonic power metal, so it belongs to The Guardians. Needless to say, I enjoy this a lot and might make an exception to my quarantine from death metal to check out the rest of their discography as well.
Amaranthe, I know the most of, and look, even though this is one of my favorite tracks, I don't think this is the best example of their sound because, yes, it's once again a symphonic power metal track with trance elements that belongs to The Guardians, but that's not what their sound is based on. Most of their other songs I believe have both symphonic/power metal and melodic metalcore/trancecore in their sound that could easily fit well in both The Guardians and The Revolution. Here's a better example to check out (after those other 3 tracks, of course):
Anyway, based on the 3 tracks, yeah, I agree that trance metal is better off in The Guardians as a power metal subgenre. It just doesn't fit right in The Revolution!
Meshuggah has just announced that they're gonna be releasing their long-awaited 9th album Immutable on April 1. In the History of Heavy Metal book I've reviewed, one of Andrew O'Neill's future predictions was "Meshuggah record an album with such complex time signatures they get trapped inside the music. The album is never released for fear of opening a black hole." Well it seems like their record label has the guts to release such an album, so we'll see in April whether or not the band are trapped within their music or if it would really cause the end of the galaxy as we know it. Either way, that would be the most epic and heaviest April Fools non-prank joke ever!
Ben, please add the new Underoath album Voyeurist, along with their non-metal albums to bridge the gap:
They're Only Chasing Safety
Define the Great Line
Erase Me
(The former two of their non-metal albums I've been asking for ever since you starting adding non-metal albums but somehow they kept getting overlooked, but this is the perfect chance to add them in along with their two most recent albums, so please don't miss them. Thanks!)
Then again, is there anything wrong with adding these bands into The Revolution under Trance Metal if they have enough electronic elements? The worst part is that Daniel/Ben did too good of a job writing the clan descriptions, since "...join the strongest of all modern metal movements...it's time to rebel..." perfectly encapsulates the "newness" that these bands are trying to bring into other established genres, for better or worse.
That is kind of a problem with including trance metal in The Revolution. While a good amount of metalcore lovers also enjoy a bit of trance metal, some might get confused about trance metal being in the same clan as metalcore. The Revolution's two superior genres, metalcore and melodic metalcore, have their roots from mixing metal with hardcore punk and lyrics of rebellion, and if trance metal bands like Amaranthe and Metalite have a electronic-infused sound that leans more towards symphonic/power metal than metalcore, that would cause quite an issue. Then again, Amaranthe often has some melodic metalcore going on, so it's a tough call.
You know what, trance metal is quite a hard genre to bring to a solid conclusive fate, so maybe we can run an experiment similar to the ones for trancecore and Nintendocore where we listen to a song from each of the prominent trance metal bands/releases to see if the genre can stay or just move those bands and releases to the closest-sounding genres/clans. How does that sound?
I’ve already listed above the clans where some of those bands could go if we end up getting rid of trance metal, so they are quite different despite electro-trance elements being an essential part of their sound.
Amaranthe can move to the Guardians with the symphonic/power metal parts of the sound along with staying in The Revolution as melodic metalcore. Babymetal can stay in The Gateway as usual, but a few songs might be worth The Guardians, such as their collaboration with DragonForce, "Road of Resistance". Blood Stain Child would, of course, stay in The Horde as melodeath. Trancecore has always been a melodic metalcore subgenre here, so it's fine how it is.
If we keep the trance metal tag but remove it from The Revolution, where would it go? Would it just be a genre's subgenre, or have its own clan? Do you have in mind what the fate of trance metal might be, Xephyr?
Here are my overall ratings for the playlists I've reviewed this month (January):
1. Gateway playlist - 4.5/5 (number of songs commented: 8)
2. Guardians playlist - 4.5/5 (number of songs commented: 9)
3. Infinite playlist - 4.5/5 (number of songs commented: 12)
3. Pit playlist - 4.5/5 (number of songs commented: 12)
4. Revolution playlist - 4.5/5 (number of songs commented: ALL 28)
So far, I've only commented on 8 tracks in the Gateway playlist, 9 tracks in the Guardians playlist, and 12 tracks each in the Infinite and Pit playlists, but I still enjoy the tracks that I had time for, and I'm grateful to Saxy, Xephyr, Vinny for their playlist works all the same and the former two's approval of me helping with creating the playlist threads, and of course to Daniel for accepting those playlists. I really dig the Revolution playlist that I've made! That opinion might seem bad form, but let me even out by saying that I would recommend any metalcore fan and anyone who isn't into metalcore but wants to get into a great start in enjoying the genre. Thanks, Daniel, for accepting my playlist! Good work on these playlists, all!
Here are my ratings for this month's feature releases for all my clans, and a quick summary:
The Gateway: Karnivool - Themata (2005) - 5/5
The Guardians: Rhapsody of Fire - Dawn of Victory (2000) - 5/5
The Infinite: Mastodon - Crack the Skye (2009) - 5/5
The Pit: Sadus - Illusions (1988) - 5/5
The Revolution: Bullet for My Valentine (2001) - 4/5
Another very solid month for feature releases, again probably because of the releases submitted by us Metal Academy members (including myself). All of the feature releases I've reviewed are perfect, except my feature release submission for The Revolution that is great enough for others to try but could've been slightly better. Thanks for these amazing feature releases, guys! Looking forward to more to come...
Ben, please add the 2010 self-titled Escape the Fate album. Its Alternative Metal tag now fits the RYM 2:1 ratio (for: 5 - against: 2).
Oh yeah, well here's what I think is probably the most poppy alt-metalcore song I've heard:
To me, more than anything, extreme metal requires harsh vocals. On top of that, common traits are downtuned guitars with heavier distortion and double bass/blast beat drumming. I think certain genres are almost always extreme metal (Death, Black, Grindcore) and others have bands that are extreme, and some that aren't (Thrash, Doom). I wouldn't call Metallica, Anthrax, or Megadeth extreme metal, but I would call Slayer, Sepultura, and Demolition Hammer extreme metal. The biggest difference is in the vocal deliveries and how often they employ double bass drumming and tremolo picking at high BPMs.
But of course, Funeral Doom is still extreme metal and doesn't often have these fast qualities, so that leaves us with the vocal delivery being the one thing tying them all together. Harsh vocals = extreme metal for me, because it is the most identifiable and forefront trait that will immediately turn a very large group of people away from the music. It is the most likely trait to be a problem for casual music listeners, making the music too "extreme" for mainstream audiences.
When you think of mainstream appeal, what seems more likely to succeed; a Thrash Metal song with melodic vocals and catchy choruses, or a Pop song with death growls all the way through? Vocal style is the prominent factor in determining what is or isn't too extreme to be considered "normal."
I agree about your thrash metal comparison (including the "Big 4" and Sepultura), but bands like Demolition Hammer and Sadus have remained mostly in the underground in their years of activity, and that's how I like extreme thrash, going extreme without ever hitting the mainstream. Funeral doom and DSBM can also be extreme, though they're often extremely slow and depressive, as opposed to the fast upbeat genres I'm more comfortable with. By the logic of "thrash metal with melodic vocals and catchy chorus" being more successful, Artillery could easily be the most popular band of thrash metal. A pop song with death growls would be very interesting, but it wouldn't really catch on. So definitely the former!
Here's how I would describe "extreme" metal. As much as I'm familiar with the term and can tolerate it, it doesn't seem quite appropriate to stick that label onto bands on a whim just because of how heavy they are/were. Bands that I like and used to like that have fallen into that trap include: Anathema, Converge, Dark Tranquility, Gojira, Katatonia, Lamb of God, My Dying Bride, Nevermore, and Tiamat. Extreme metal, in my opinion, should be reserved for the ultra-heavy genres I try to avoid such as the more brutal ends of death metal and black metal, and grindcore. The word "extreme" might raise some suspicion from my family and friends from the outside world, and that's why I have to be specific to them about the genres the bands play. "Extreme metal" is an OK term, but it shall be used wisely!
I wouldn't recommend that we add Deathcore to The Horde Andi. Most Death Metal fanatics have problems with Deathcore in my experience & the intention of the clans is to is to link subgenres that are likely to appeal to the same audience. I think it's fine residing only in The Revolution although I could be convinced that it's better as a main Genre rather than a subgenre of Metalcore.
On the Trance Metal topic, after putting together The Revolution playlists for a couple of years & religiously including a Trance Metal track I've become very much aware that it doesn't sit all that comfortably alongside the Metalcore subgenre set. I'm interested to get everyone's feedback on whether you think it would sit better in another clan &, if so, which one that might be. The Gateway perhaps? Even The Guardians given the similarities to Power Metal & Symphonic Metal? Thoughts? Where do you think Trance Metal belongs?
On the Trancecore topic, from my playlist programming experience it seems to me that it's more of a variation on Melodic Metalcore than anything else. Am I wrong?
NOTE: Please bare in mind that all this talk is just hypothetical at this stage because it's a significant exercise to make changes like these.
The deathcore thing is also hypothetical, and I'm comfortable with deathcore staying in just The Revolution, for myself and fans of each separate genre. If we do end up getting rid of trance metal and all bands of that genre go to other clans and genres, it would be quite a tough call, but here are a few examples: Amaranthe can move to the Guardians with the symphonic/power metal parts of the sound along with staying in The Revolution as melodic metalcore. Babymetal can stay in The Gateway as usual, but a few songs might be worth The Guardians, such as their collaboration with DragonForce, "Road of Resistance". Blood Stain Child would, of course, stay in The Horde as melodeath. Trancecore has always been a melodic metalcore subgenre here, so it's fine how it is.
Update on my list (still alphabetized and still at Bruno Terrosa's 55):
1. Accept - Metal Heart (1985)
2. All That Remains - Overcome (2008)
3. Annihilator - Alice in Hell (1989)
4. August Burns Red - Constellations (2009)
5. Bleeding Through - Love Will Kill All (2018)
6. Born of Osiris - The Discovery (2011)
7. Botch - We are the Romans (1999)
8. Bring Me the Horizon - Sempiternal (2013)
9. Bruce Dickinson - Accident of Birth (1997)
10. Bullet for My Valentine - The Poison (2005)
11. Converge & Chelsea Wolfe - Bloodmoon: I (2021)
12. Coroner - Mental Vortex (1991)
13. Crimson Glory - Transcendence (1988)
14. Dark Angel - Time Does Not Heal (1991)
15. Demolition Hammer - Tortured Existence (1990)
16. Devin Townsend - Empath (2019)
17. Dir En Grey - Uroboros (2008)
18. Disillusion - Back to Times of Splendor (2004)
19. Fates Warning - The Spectre Within (1985)
20. God Forbid - IV: Constitution of Treason (2005)
21. Green Carnation - Light of Day, Day of Darkness (2001)
22. Hopesfall - No Wings to Speak of (2001)
23. Horse the Band - Desperate Living (2009)
24. Ice Nine Kills - The Silver Scream (2018)
25. Karnivool - Themata (2005)
26. Leprous - Tall Poppy Syndrome (2009)
27. Liquid Tension Experiment - Liquid Tension Experiment 3 (2021)
28. Lord - Fallen Idols (2019)
29. Lost Horizon - A Flame to the Ground Beneath (2003)
30. Make Them Suffer - Neverbloom (2012)
31. Maudlin of the Well - Bath (2001)
32. Meshuggah - Catch Thirty-Three (2005)
33. Motionless in White - Creatures (2010)
34. Ne Obliviscaris - Portal of I (2012)
35. Neurosis - Through Silver in Blood (1996)
36. Parkway Drive - Horizons (2007)
37. Plini - Impulse Voices (2020)
38. Prayer for Cleansing - Rain in Endless Fall (1999)
39. Protest the Hero - Kezia (2005)
40. Queensryche - The Warning (1984)
41. Riot - Thundersteel (1988)
42. Running Wild - Death or Glory (1989)
43. Savatage - Dead Winter Dead (1995)
44. Seventh Wonder - Mercy Falls (2008)
45. Silent Planet - Iridescent (2021)
46. Skyharbor - Blinding White Noise: Illusion and Chaos (2012)
47. Textures - Dualism (2011)
48. The Dillinger Escape Plan - Calculating Infinity (1999)
49. Trivium - In Waves (2011)
50. Veil of Maya - [id] (2010)
51. Vektor - Black Future (2009)
52. Virgin Steele - The Marriage of Heaven and Hell Part II (1995)
53. Voivod - Dimension Hatross (1988)
54. Wuthering Heights - The Shadow Cabinet (2006)
55. X Japan - Art of Life (1993)
Before we get to my latest list update, I would like to point out an early hint for next month's Revolution Spotify playlist that I'm assembling. I tend to focus on the years when all of the Revolution genres/subgenres are existent. Sure there are great classics in the genres that have been around since before 2006, but I didn't want some of the genres to feel left out. Still I can sneak add a few tracks from as early as the late 90s (I haven't forgotten about your Cold as Life track suggestion, Daniel), kind of like some bands who are formed 30 years ago, but choose to mainly play songs live from as early as 2006, with one or a few throwback tracks as early as 1998. With all that said, I'm going to try categorizing the different metal eras again, this time to suit the different eras of The Revolution genres. So here's my updated list:
Beginning oldies (1978-1989)/B.M. (Before Metalcore):
1978: Riot - Rock City (yes I know, everyone says the year is 1977, but I don't quite suspect that as its true release year, more info about that in this separate thread reply: https://metal.academy/forum/28/thread/362#topic_6048)
1979: Riot - Narita
1980: Accept - I'm a Rebel
1981: Accept - Breaker
1982: Virgin Steele - Virgin Steele
1983: Savatage - Sirens
1984: Queensryche - The Warning
1985: Fates Warning - The Spectre Within
1986: Crimson Glory - Crimson Glory
1987: Savatage - Hall of the Mountain King
1988: Riot - Thundersteel
1989: Running Wild - Death or Glory
Old golden classics (1990-1997)/Humble metalcore beginnings:
1990: Demolition Hammer - Tortured Existence
1991: Dark Angel - Time Does Not Heal
1992: Sadus - A Vision of Misery
1993: X Japan - Art of Life
1994: Savatage - Handful of Rain
1995: Savatage - Dead Winter Dead
1996: Converge - Petitioning the Empty Sky
1997: Bruce Dickinson - Accident of Birth
Millennium transition highlights (1998-2005)/Light of day-seeing metalcore classics:
1998: Meshuggah - Chaosphere
1999: Botch - We are the Romans
2000: Skycamefalling - 10.21
2001: Converge - Jane Doe
2002: Hopesfall - The Satellite Years
2003: The Lord Weird Slough Feg - Traveller
2004: Wuthering Heights - Far From the Madding Crowd
2005: Trivium - Ascendancy
Modern favorites (2006-2013)/Rise of the full Revolution:
2006: Wuthering Heights - The Shadow Cabinet
2007: The Dillinger Escape Plan - Ire Works
2008: Textures - Silhouettes
2009: August Burns Red - Constellations
2010: Motionless in White - Creatures
2011: Trivium - In Waves
2012: Skyharbor - Blinding White Noise: Illusion and Chaos
2013: We Came as Romans - Tracing Back Roots
The best of the most recent (2014-2021)/A greater new uprising:
2014: Ne Obliviscaris - Citadel
2015: Bullet for My Valentine - Venom
2016: Vektor - Terminal Redux
2017: Trivium - The Sin and the Sentence
2018: Silent Planet - When the End Began
2019: Devin Townsend - Empath
2020: Trivium - What the Dead Men Say
2021: Trivium - In the Court of the Dragon
With the last third of 2021 being filled with the greatest amount of amazing new releases to end that year, that also marks the grand ending to that 8-year phase in my opinion, with this year 2022 possibly starting a new one.
2022 albums I'm looking forward to getting:
Underoath - Voyeurist
Persefone - Metanoia
Cult of Luna - The Long Road North
Voivod - Synchro Anarchy
Annihilator - Metal II (nearly entire re-recording of their Metal album)
Animals as Leaders - Parrhesia
Rate Your Music (which is where the metal genre/subgenre categories came from for Metal Academy) has recently switched melodic metalcore into a metalcore subgenre instead of one of the main metal genres, so now it's the same level as deathcore. I think it really would make sense if deathcore is a main metal genre since it mixes metalcore with death metal, maybe for both The Horde and The Revolution? Then again, I would end up quitting assembling the Revolution monthly playlist because I lost my tolerance for death metal last year (more info here: https://metal.academy/forum/10/thread/748). I once made a couple clan challenge proposals for Ben; one to make clan challenges for the remaining main genres, and the other to make clan challenges for all the subgenres, but the latter idea would take too much work, and he's currently taking a hiatus from creating new clan challenges. I've sent to him via private message some release ideas for the remaining genre clan challenges for in case he decides to continue making them (I can privately tell you my release ideas for the trance metal clan challenge if you would like). When I assemble the Revolution playlists, I make sure to include all of its genres and subgenres while considering an appropriate ratio between them based on release notability, and I kind of think of trance metal and trancecore as the same thing because of their similarity in sound and the very little amount of releases for both of them. Trance metal has much less! Either way, any Revolution genre and subgenre is welcome in the Revolution playlists, so please feel free to submit your Revolution track suggestion here (one per non-members): https://metal.academy/forum/14/thread/484
PS: Sorry to hear you have the virus. Feel better soon, Scarecrow.
But isn't deathcore already under the Revolution banner already? You make it sound like deathcore isn't already something you can put in the Revolution playlist, when it seems like you can from what I read. I am interested in seeing the clan challenge proposals, as I think it's a super cool and educational (for lack of a better word) idea. I hope Ben's hiatus isn't for too long, it would be a shame if the idea was abandoned. I also agree that trancecore and trance metal are incredibly similar in sound, if not entirely indistinguishable.
Hi Scarecrow. Very valid questions. When we originally created the Metal Academy website we had to decide on a reasonable configuration & wouldn't profess to be experts in every metal subgenre so we simply went with the most well informed position we could at the time. In saying that though, we're always looking for ways to improve the site & have made dozens of changes over time. I agree with you that in hindsight Melodic Metalcore should be under Metalcore & it's likely be something that we'll look to change in the future. Just bare in mind that every change we make to the database structure can create a considerable logistical challenge as we've already got tens of thousands of releases in play under the current structure. There's also a financial cost for us to make most changes so we tend to do them in batches in order to get the most bang for buck with our developer.
As for why there's not a trance metal clan challenge, that's because there are very few genuine trance metal releases of any note which makes it pretty irrelevant as a guide to a potential new clan member's understanding of The Revolution. In fact, I'm now of the opinion that Trance Metal probably doesn't belong in The Revolution & may not even warrant its own subgenre. That might be something we look at over time too.
I understand that. If it's more about the logistics/cost behind it then yeah I don't see a reason to prioritize this change either.
I would be a little sad if trance metal was done away with because I like the genre. I know it's definitely smaller than a lot of the other genres here, but I feel like eliminating it entirely would leave some bands/albums without genres that truly describe their sound (Like, what would you call Blood Stain Child if not trance metal? Melodeath? That would feel slightly misleading).
Of course, deathcore already is in The Revolution, but if it has the death metal riffing, blast beats, and deep growls, would it fit well as part of death metal and The Horde? That would make sense, but it's already residing in just The Revolution, and it should probably stay as it is. Getting red of the trance genres just because there are so few releases in those genres would be awful because that's the best way to describe some of the bands of those two genres. Amaranthe's sound has elements of power metal and melodic death/metalcore combined with electronic/symphonic influences, but describing that as a concluding set of genres is misleading. Similarly, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas combine metalcore/post-hardcore with electronic/symphonic influences, but that's not how I would describe them. What if we at least categorize trance metal and trancecore as one genre? Call it "trance metal/core", and whether it ends up as a main genre or a subgenre, what matters is, we still have it. I'm glad you agree about how similar those two genres sound, Scarecrow.
Rate Your Music (which is where the metal genre/subgenre categories came from for Metal Academy) has recently switched melodic metalcore into a metalcore subgenre instead of one of the main metal genres, so now it's the same level as deathcore. I think it really would make sense if deathcore is a main metal genre since it mixes metalcore with death metal, maybe for both The Horde and The Revolution? Then again, I would end up quitting assembling the Revolution monthly playlist because I lost my tolerance for death metal last year (more info here: https://metal.academy/forum/10/thread/748). I once made a couple clan challenge proposals for Ben; one to make clan challenges for the remaining main genres, and the other to make clan challenges for all the subgenres, but the latter idea would take too much work, and he's currently taking a hiatus from creating new clan challenges. I've sent to him via private message some release ideas for the remaining genre clan challenges for in case he decides to continue making them (I can privately tell you my release ideas for the trance metal clan challenge if you would like). When I assemble the Revolution playlists, I make sure to include all of its genres and subgenres while considering an appropriate ratio between them based on release notability, and I kind of think of trance metal and trancecore as the same thing because of their similarity in sound and the very little amount of releases for both of them. Trance metal has much less! Either way, any Revolution genre and subgenre is welcome in the Revolution playlists, so please feel free to submit your Revolution track suggestion here (one per non-members): https://metal.academy/forum/14/thread/484
PS: Sorry to hear you have the virus. Feel better soon, Scarecrow.
There are some people out there who think of extreme metal as a genre, but it's definitely not. It's an umbrella term! That's like if someone asks you "What's your favorite movie?", and you say "The Marvel Cinematic Universe!" You don't have to treat a huge franchise like one film! Anyway, extreme metal is often split into 4 of the heavier metal genres; the speed metal of Venom, the thrash metal of Slayer, the black metal of Darkthrone and Emperor, and the death metal of Morbid Angel (even melodeath such as Dark Tranquillity), though this also includes heavy doom albums from the early 90s made by bands such as Anathema, Katatonia, My Dying Bride, and Tiamat. Then there are a few bands whom the extreme metal has stuck to them like a nametag, with one notable example being Cradle of Filth. You can definitely think of their sound as black metal, gothic metal, and symphonic metal, but extreme metal is the way to go because that's what the band is most comfortable with and a great compromise to not cause any severe arguments. Extremity is indeed suitable for music that expands your comfort zone and anyone who doesn't tolerate that level shouldn't proceed. I absolutely can tolerate extreme, but I know some people in the outside world can't, so I have to stay in control, especially when it comes to black metal, death metal, and doom metal. So... extremity can kinda both be (based on these song titles):
and
That's a lot of Meshuggah in your list, Daniel! Djent is a really cool heavy subgenre, but I haven't listened to that as much as the rest of progressive metal. Still going by my one-band-per-entry rule, I'll start with a top 5:
5. Born of Osiris - The Simulation (2019)
4. Veil of Maya - Matriarch (2015)
3. Meshuggah - Catch Thirtythree (2005)
2. Textures - Dualism (2011)
1. The Contortionist - Exoplanet (2010)
Finally made my draft a public post! It's right here: https://www.reddit.com/user/shadowdoom9/comments/rw8mvq/my_thoughts_on_loudwires_big_4_bands_of_17_metal/