The Cybergrind Thread
So, I'm about to undertake a new genre deep dive, this time with the niche subgenre of grindcore known as cybergrind. I've long harbored concerns around the suitability of cybergrind being a part of The Horde as the tracks I select for the monthly playlists often sound wildly out of place. The point of the deep dive is to answer the following questions:
1. Is cybergrind a real subgenre (i.e. do the various releases hold common character traits or is it more of a catch-all)?
2. If so, is it a metal subgenre?
3. If so, which clan does it hold the closest affiliation to?
I get the feeling that this deep dive is gonna be a bit of a challenge to get through as I suspect that many of the releases won't be to my taste but it has to be done at some stage so I might as well get it over with.
Good luck Daniel. Rather you than me!
Genghis Tron - "Cloak of Love" E.P. (2005)
I really enjoyed Genghis Tron's 2006 debut album "Dead Mountain Mouth" when I nominated it as a feature release for The Horde back in 2006. It sounded so fresh & original at the time (not to mention well produced) however I do remember questioning it's credentials for the clan & those feelings have stayed with me ever since, only being further exacerbated by my experiences in programming cybergrind material into the monthly The Horde playlists. It only makes sense then that I would begin my cybergrind deep dive by exploring Genghis Tron's debut release in 2005's "Cloak of Love" E.P.
This little record offers more of a taste than a meal with it's run time flying by in just twelve minutes but I get the feeling that these sort of releases are better off not overstaying their welcome with the risk of their novelty value wearing off being rather high. There are five short tracks on offer here & things start off rather well with the first three tracks all being pretty interesting & generally rewarding. Unfortunately though, the remaining two see Genghis Tron's quirky silliness being pushed a little too far & see the overall result being tainted for me.
So, is this cybergrind? Well, "Ride The Steambolt" certainly is as it uses grindcore as it's basic building blocks but I'd suggest that the other four tracks use it more as a tool than a core component. Those four tracks have more electronica & downtempo than metal & when the blast-beats come in they're often sporadic & rarely overstay their welcome. The atmosphere these songs create is really quite bizarre too & I feel that they're far better suited to an Avant-Garde Metal tag as you'll rarely find a stranger sounding metal record. And this is a metal record. Let's be clear about that because despite the strong electronic focus the blast-beats & screaming vocals work to completely alienate anyone that's not already associated with those techniques so I can't see too many fans of EDM coming in for a casual listen.
As with "Dead Mountain Mouth", it's the smooth downtempo moments that really shine here & I even enjoy the more quirky electronica more than I do most of the metal too. I can't help but feel that perhaps Genghis Tron would have been better suited to creating some more serious electronic releases than going for an off-the-wall approach like they have here. But, in saying that, they seem to have found somewhat of a niche in the market & are doing pretty well for themselves so what would I know.
3/5
Here's the best example of the cybergrind sound:
YES! Genghis fucking TRON! Excellent choice for a new genre.
Noism - "±" (2008)
I hadn't heard of Tokyo-based duo Noism before but I'm unlikely to forget them after experiencing (yes, experiencing) their one-off 2008 album "±" as I've rarely taken such a musical battering & that's saying something given my taste profile. You see, the racket this artist produces across the short 21 minute duration of this release is almost unparalleled. Imagine a continuous barrage of freeform breakcore drum machine programming with seemingly random psychotic death metal guitar noise underneath it, changing wildly from one idea to the next without any warning or thought for compositional integrity. It's relentless in it's savage attack on the senses, confusing the mind so as to ensure that identifying the individual components is almost too tiring to attempt. It's a confusing ride & it's probably a good thing that Noism opted to leave the album purely instrumental because I'm not sure my ears could stand another component.
"±" is certainly short for an album but there's little doubt that it needs to be as there's no way to differentiate between the individual tracks. They all sound very much the same, kinda like an argument between a nail gun & a machine gun has gotten wwwaaayyyy out of hand. It's just so fucking extreme though which sees my eyes being continually drawn to this creative car crash. Why do I find myself liking this cacophony so much? I think it's the underlying hum of authentic underground deathgrind in the guitar work which pays no attention to traditional structure but manages to fill the space with an authenticity that I can relate to on a purely visceral level. This is genuine cybergrind ladies & gentlemen. It fits the description perfectly & has single-handedly proven to me that the niche subgenre has some basis for existing in the first place. Approach this release at your own peril but, if you're prepared to take that risk, accept "±" for what it is & enjoy the undiluted chaos it throws at you from close range.
4/5
I found this album to be monotonous as well. I have difficulty giving high ratings to monotonous albums, even short 20-minute ones. This and the "Brutal Autonomy" EP are both good examples of how monotony can hurt a rating for me, as I didn't care for either.
Bologna Violenta - "Il nuovissimo mondo" (2010)
This Italian solo artist is the next cybergrind producer I've explored & I've been a little surprised to find that I do actually consider the music contained within his debut album to be an offshoot of grindcore, be it a fairly avant-garde version of it. "Il nuovissimo mondo" is a short 25 minute album comprising of 23 tracks that generally mix a range of silly ambient/jazz/experimental sounds with blasting electronic blastbeats & Italian porn samples. I don't think it's meant to be taken seriously which is always a negative for me as I'm kvlt as fvck & take myself far too seriously. There are only a couple of complete failures amongst the tracklisting but there's also only a few tracks that I can say that I genuinely enjoy so it's come across as a bit of a flat release overall. Even though it pains me a little to say so, I have eventually had to admit to myself that it belongs in The Horde but I'd also place it in The Infinite under Avant-Garde Metal as it's simply too weird to be regarded as purely grindcore based.
3/5
Gigantic Brain - "The Invasion Discography" (2004)
Now if I ever had my doubts about the authenticity of the Cybergrind subgenre & it's credentials for qualification into The Horde then the 2004 debut full-length from Virginia's Gigantic Brain has well & truly put those to bed. "The Invasion Discography" is an enormous release that features a ridiculous 63 tracks spanning an exhausting 59 minutes. Essentially what you can expect here is a sci-fi inspired brand of goregrind that revels in taking you into the weird & avant-garde through head-caving electronic dissonance & over-the-top artificial blast-beats. Gigantic Brain certainly don't take themselves too seriously but they can also come across as fairly disposable for that very reason as there's really very little of substance here. The vocals aren't too bad, despite pushing the threshold of the silly & absurd at times.
"The Invasion Discography" is actually a compilation of all of the Gigantic Brain's work up until that time & it's not too hard to hear where one project ends & another begins as the production & volume can be a little variable. The tracklisting actually begins with a lot of promise as I quite enjoy the majority of the first twelve or so tracks. Unfortunately I suspect that those represented the newest material on offer as the remainder of the release sees a noticeable drop in quality & excitement with a fair chunk of the tracks bordering on self-indulgence or repetition. There's no doubt that I enjoy the extremity of Gigantic Brain's sound but when they fail to engage me it's generally because they've gotten too silly, have opted for annoying electronic sounds or have included some fairly bouncy, almost nu metal-ish chug riffs.
Overall, I'd suggest that "The Invasion Discography" is simply too ambitious for it's own good. It doesn't work as an album because it's far too long & the material is inconsistent. I think Gigantic Brain would have been far better off releasing this material in bit-sized chunks, particularly the first portion of the album which is actually pretty good.
3/5
Agoraphobic Nosebleed - "Altered States of America" (2003)
I was already very aware of Massachusetts blast-merchants Agoraphobic Nosebleed prior to this deep dive & they're apparently the most well-known cybergrind artist if online resources are to be believed but this third full-length has left me questioning my understanding of the parameters of the genre to be honest. You see, "Altered States of America" is really just a grindcore record that uses a drum machine & to me that doesn't constitute a new genre. I mean if you didn't know it wasn't a real drummer then what's the difference really? Of course, you DO know it's not a real drummer as no drummer alive could play as fast as these blast-beats.
The album can make for a significant challenge for some listeners (Ben, I'm looking at you) as it includes a full 100 tracks across it's very short 21 minute duration which makes it pretty hard to rate but I have to say that I found myself buying into the band's dark, twisted & satirical social themes & don't pay much attention to the track numbers changing within seconds of each other. This is some seriously brutal grindcore but you can make out every nuance of the riffs very easily & they're generally of a pretty high quality too. I also really enjoy the psychotic vocal delivery which only accentuates the sheer extremity of what must surely be one of the most intense bands on the global scene. They certainly aren't for everyone but then... neither am I!
I can't say that "Altered States of America" is a cybergrind record because there's really nothing "cyber" about it other than a drum machine. It's definitely best represented by The Horde though. There's no question about that.
4/5
Hello Kitty Suicide Club - "^_^" (2012)
Some of you are probably aware that I recently compiled & posted a list of my ten worst metal releases of all time, a task that I took quite seriously. Upon completing the task, I subsequently encouraged others to attempt something similar in the interest of healthy conversation. The planning for my cybergrind deep dive was well underway by that stage & I’d already selected the releases that I was going to explore so it was a little disconcerting when I noticed that our fellow member Rexorcist had included Hello Kitty Suicide Club’s “^_^” album at number three on his own worst-of list given that it was included in my list of ten cybergrind releases. I wondered whether that would just be a taste thing rather than a reflection of quality (or lack there-of) so I decided to charge through regardless & I now have to admit that the whole exercise has ended up being one of the most tedious experiences I’ve had since we began our Metal Academy journey. My stubborn unwillingness to break my minimum-three-listen rule has ended up being my worst enemy here as, despite Hello Kitty Suicide Club’s sophomore album only being 24 minutes in duration, this whole exercise has felt like a thousand years given just how little of substance there is to grab onto here. In fact, I’d have to suggest that “^_^” may well be the worst release I’ve heard in all of my years of rating & reviewing metal.
Let’s get one thing straight, Hello Kitty Suicide Club is not meant to be taken seriously. A brief look at the track titles should tell you that. In fact, I’d hazard to suggest that the prime intent of it’s two contributors was to make the worst album ever recorded, a task they’ve succeeded at emphatically. The sound they’ve chosen to achieve such a feat? An attempt at emulating the most primitive brand of underground extreme music using only the cheapest & most outdated electronic equipment they could find with some psychotic & completely random screaming over the top. Yes, you can expect to hear some grind riffs produced on something that sounds like the Casio keyboard you remember from your childhood only it’ll be intentionally played out of time & there will be some extraordinarily annoying & abrasive high-pitched screaming invading your ears simultaneously. You can also expect to hear humorous film & TV samples from cult classics like “Anchorman” & “South Park” thrown in for good measure as well as some genuine synth pop moments that remind you of Kraftwerk at times too with those elements being clearly the least repulsive parts of the album.
Is this metal? Not in the slightest. Whoever the fuck thought it was appropriate to link this record with grindcore has no concept or understanding of what makes something metal. There are no guitars included here & the only thing I can see that has any relation to metal are the horrific vocals & occasional use of fast electronic kick-drums & pseudo-blast beats. This album is purely an avant-garde electronic music release & sounds a gazillion miles more like the soundtrack to the earliest computer games than it does Napalm Death. In fact, even if you were going to accept it as metal you’d have no hesitation in lumping it in with avant-garde metal as opposed to grindcore. Show me a death/grind nut that is comfortable with this cover art being associated with their chosen passion & I’ll be very surprised as Hello Kitty Suicide Club have done everything in their power to leave those serious individuals with nothing to grab onto here in what must surely be the most heinous musical atrocity ever committed to tape. “^_^” categorially has no place at the Metal Academy. Hell, it has no place residing anywhere on Earth! It really is that bad that it’s creators are probably receiving royalties from underground crime syndicates across the globe who have the ultimate tool of torture at their disposal here.
0.5/5
The Berzerker - "The Berzerker" (2000)
When it comes to the niche cybergrind subgenre, the debut album from Melbourne’s The Berzerker is one of the more appropriate & deserving releases to receive the tag. Released on legendary UK extreme metal label Earache Records, “The Berzerker” sees creative mastermind Luke Kenny presenting a soundscape that combines the dark & twisted industrial beats of speedcore & gabber with the down-tuned grind riffage of early Carcass, a particularly extreme musical hybrid that shows promise initially but doesn’t always work if I’m being honest.
The album starts really well with album highlight “Reality” kicking things off & a string of decent inclusions following close behind it. Things start to get a little shaky towards the middle of the tracklisting before the ball gets dropped altogether over the last few tracks which include a couple of fairly pointless (& quite lengthy compared to the rest of the album) noise tracks to close things out. You’ll notice some obvious industrial influences on tracks like “February” & “Ignorance” while there are a couple of tunes that draw upon black metal for inspiration too (see “Forever” & “Ignorance”). It’s the over-the-top electronic beats that differentiate The Berzerker from your run of the mill deathgrind bands though & they can be a touch intrusive at times, particularly when they’re played at light-speed. I also find that the simpler power chord riffs lack a bit of ambition which detracts from the impact of the more brutal blast-beat sections.
Look, “The Berzerker” isn’t a total disaster but there are enough issues here to leave a slightly unpleasant taste in my mouth. I dig it from a conceptual point of view & appreciate the ambition, influences & atmospherics but it doesn’t quite gel consistently enough for my liking.
3/5
Phantomsmasher - "Atomsmasher" (2001)
I have to admit that legendary underground metal producer James Plotkin’s Phantomsmasher project (or Atomsmasher as it was called at the time of this release before being legally forced to change the name) is one that I’ve been giving a wide birth for several years now after hearing snippets of it while exploring the monthly playlists for The Horde. Those experiences usually left me wondering what in the actual fuck I was hearing & being baffled as to how an artist like this one was attached to the clan, let alone metal in general. But this cybergrind deep dive has led me to finally bite the bullet which was an imposing prospect to say the least so I made the conscious effort to clear my mind of any preconceptions prior to taking the plunge. While doing so I reminded myself of other Plotkin projects like Old, Khanate or even some of his solo production work that I’ve quite enjoyed over the years to give this music a fair chance to engage with me.
Despite all of that mental preparation though, I challenge even the most well-informed listener not to find “Atomsmasher” to be one of the most bizarre pieces of art they’ve ever experienced. Plotkin has become known for giving the musical boundaries a good ol’ stretch over the years but he completely decimates them here with an album that pushes the definition of what can be considered to be music to breaking point. Is this cybergrind? Absolutely not. Despite the use of cut-up & heavily effected blast-beats (from Burnt By The Sun/Human Remains/Discordance Axis/Exit-13/Municipal Waste/Melt-Banana skins man Dave Witte no less) & psychotically screamed (& generally ridiculous) vocal shenanigans, there isn’t really any trace of grindcore here. Hell, there’s nothing even remotely like metal if I’m being honest! Metal is built on heavy guitars & riffs but there’s next to no guitars included on this record. To my ears it’s a combination of avant-garde experimental music, electronic music, psychedelia & noise; a concoction that sits far closer to the electronic & avant-garde genres than it does to even the more ambitious metal subgenres like avant-garde metal. It’s really pretty hard to fathom how someone can have conjured up this racket within the confines of their brain, so much so that I’d suggest that they actually haven’t & have simply laid down tracks until they’d created this cacophony out of pure chance.
That’s not to say that there’s no value in this album though. No, don’t misunderstand me on that point because, despite my non-commital rating, there’s only one track that I regard as being truly terrible (see “Skitchy” which provides no value whatsoever & is the very definition of filler). The majority of the remaining tracks can be a bit of a struggle though if I’m being honest. There are really only two “songs” that I achieve much connection with, the first being the superbly ambient “Gilgamesh” which is the best piece of work on the tracklisting by a fair margin & the second being the lengthiest inclusion in “Skull Shot” which takes the listener in a number of different directions & may not always be successful but ultimately saw me buying into its strange & mysterious charms. You see, “Atomsmasher” sounds like nothing I’ve ever heard before & it should be commended for that but the question has to be asked as to whether I can say that I genuinely WANT to hear it again. I’d suggest that the answer is no, at least for the moment. And I also have to ask what benefit a record like this one brings to your average metalhead’s lives as the cybergrind tag is so fucking misguided it’s not funny.
At the end of the day, I think there will always be a market for consciously silly & ridiculous music like Phantomsmasher have produced here. I’d say that market would be the same people that seem to rate artists like Naked City or Painkiller so highly as there are some similarities here, only they’re taken in a much more electronic direction. As for our Metal Academy regulars, I’ve got my doubts about the appeal of a record like this one. One thing’s for sure though, if it is going to offer any sort of pleasure it’d be to those more inclined towards The Infinite than The Horde.
3/5
Whourkr - "Concrete" (2008)
The 2008 sophomore album from French cybergrind duo Whourkr is one truly unusual beast & I’m honestly not sure I’ve heard anything like it before. These guys take a penchant for extreme metal genres like deathcore & slam death metal & combine it with a bizarre array of electronic weirdness & then layer the most psychotic vocal performance you’ve ever heard over the top to create a record that will certainly startle the unsuspecting listener. A great production job certainly helps with the thick guitar tone really accentuating the chunky riffage on offer. The incorporation of cut-up breakcore beats has worked nicely here too as that component has been well integrated into the band’s sound but it’s the vocals of - i snor that are the really alarming element at play. If you took Mike Patton’s weirdest efforts & multiplied the insanity level by a margin of three then you’d be getting close to understanding what this twisted individual has been able to muster here. It’s a feather in his cap that he’s able to continuously come up with new & ever more ridiculous forms of oral battery & I’d imagine it would be almost a full-time undertaking.
As for the cybergrind thing… weeellll…. I’m not really hearing a lot of grindcore here to be honest. The clear protagonist is the avant-garde nature of this music & I’d hazard to suggest that the only primary genre tag necessary with “Concrete” is the avant-garde metal one given that they have a lot more in common with Mr. Bungle & Arcturus than they do with Pig Destroyer or Nasum. Interestingly though, it’s the two more traditional & progressively inclined tracks in “Santo” & closer (& album highlight) “Plantea” that really float my boat with some of the other material perhaps taking me a little too far in regard to unhinged experimentation. “Concrete” is a pretty entertaining record nonetheless though & I’d suggest that there might be a few members of The Infinite that might get more out of it than I have. Ben too actually.
3.5/5
Thotcrime - "ønyøurcømputer" (2020)
The final release in my cybergrind deep dive is the debut album from a multinational artist by the name of Thotcrime, a release that sounds very different to any of the other nine records I’ve investigated thus far. Now, it’s worth noting that I use the term “album” very loosely here because the eleven tracks included on 2020’s “ønyøurcømputer” clock in at just over fifteen minutes in total duration which I’d suggest is more than pushing the friendship when it comes to claiming album rights. Regardless though, I’d have to say that the length of the record is fairly appropriate in this case as I feel that the novelty would wear off fairly quickly.
What we have here is a release that takes the sounds of The Revolution & injects them with a raw infusion of grindcore & electronics to give it an additional dose of chaos. There’s certainly not enough grindcore on offer to be able to justify cybergrind being claimed as a primary genre though & I’d suggest that a dual mathcore & Nintendocore tag would be all that’s required when you consider that a lot of the electronic component leans towards that old-school video-game sound. There are a few touches of traditional metalcore included & even the odd hint at avant-garde metal at times but the dominant elements of this album are clearly rooted in the mathy end of The Revolution.
The screaming male hardcore vocals aren't anything terribly unusual for a metalcore based artist & tend to come across as a little generic if I'm being honest but Thotcrime also include some clean female vocals to change things up a bit, although I have to admit that they don’t really work & I find them to be a touch annoying so the vocal side of” ønyøurcømputer” is certainly its weak point. The instrumental side of the band is much more interesting with the use of blast-beats & blindingly fast double kick work being the major points of excitement for this ol’d extreme metalhead. The performances are very tight with the guitarists pulling off some highly technical & progressive riff structures that include melodic runs that are quite similar to those utilized in the modern tech-death sound. I really enjoy it when the band hit on some of their simpler power-chord driven metalcore riffs too.
It's worth noting that the second half of the album is stronger than the first so I’d suggest that you show a bit of patience if you find yourself struggling a bit midway through the tracklisting. Unfortunately though, despite the wins out-weighing the losses here, I wouldn’t say that there are any individual tracks that stand out as genuine highlights. There’s a consistency to this material that sees the difference between the stronger material & the weaker songs simply amounting to the inclusion of one annoyingly quirky riff or verse. When taken holistically though, I can’t deny that “ønyøurcømputer” offers something of value & I’ve quite enjoyed the experience overall.
3.5/5
OK, so the long-awaited result of my cybergrind deep dive is finally at hand! It was an arduous journey but I feel that I've reached an outcome, even if it wasn't exactly as clear as day after all that effort.
When you read the definition of what cybergrind actually is on RYM you'll find that it's essentially grindcore with electronic elements layered over the top so the first thing I was looking for in each release was "Is this a form of grindcore?". Then the second thing I was asking myself was "If so, does the electronic component add enough of a differentiator to warrant it's own separate subgenre?" Let's see how I went:
As you can see, of the ten releases I reviewed, only five were legitimately grindcore-related releases which meant that five were completely ineligible for the tag.
Of those five eligible releases, one was simply a grindcore release with a drum machine handling the beats instead of a drummer. I don't consider that to require it's own genre because if you didn't know it wasn't a real drummer then it's no different to grindcore.
So that leaves just four releases of the ten that I regard as being true cybergrind releases, two of which were combined with avant-garde metal.
The remainder were mostly very poorly tagged by people that clearly don't have an understanding of not only what grindcore is but also what metal is in general in some cases. But the question that faced me at the end of the deep dive was this: If there are a few legitimate cybergrind releases out there, is that enough to warrant the subgenre staying in the Metal Academy database & maintaining its position in The Horde?
Well, after discussing it with Ben this afternoon, we've decided to keep cybergrind in the database & to work on cleaning out the inappropriate use of the tag over time. The tagging on RYM, Metal Archive, etc has become increasingly rubbish of late so we'd like to see Metal Academy taking the bull by the horns by going against the grain & providing a far more accurate representation of where our releases sit.
I guess this means that I'll still have issues when creating the monthly The Horde playlists if I want to include some cybergrind material each month but this deep dive is really the first step in fixing that up in the database so I can only see the situation improving over time.
For those that are interested, I've put together my Top Ten Cybergrind Releases of All Time list & have included any release that is commonly regarded as being a part of the genre, despite my strong opinions on the eligibility of some of these records. See what you think:
01. Genghis Tron - "Dead Mountain Mouth" (2006)
02. Agoraphobic Nosebleed - "Altered States of America" (2003)
03. Noism - "±" (2008)
04. Whourkr - "Concrete" (2008)
05. Agoraphobic Nosebleed/Converge - "The Poacher Diaries" split album (1999)
06. Thotcrime - "ønyøurcømputer" (2020)"
07. The Berzerker - "The Berzerker" (2000)
08. Genghis Tron - "Cloak of Love" E.P. (2005)
09. Phantomsmasher - "Atomsmasher" (2001)
10. Gigantic Brain - "The Invasion Discography" (2004)
This weekend break from my Ultimate Pit test has also been filled with discoveries. Besides some different bands from genres I like, I also decided to test some more strength in cybergrind, to see if it's worth a good visit and, well...
Bologna Violenta's album Il nuovissimo mondo is just so f***ing bizarre. I don't even know if it can be considered actual music, really. I mean, there is a lot of the guitar riffing that occurs in short grindcore blasts, but the only vocals here are Italian spoken word and quotes, and apparently, they're about cynicism and violence. Other than the grindcore parts, there's some weird avant-garde sh*t with elements of different genres. The only track I would consider music is the "Blue Song", and that's one quite boring and sh*tty. If anyone wants to check out all that massive ear-melting experimentation, go ahead. But f*** it, that doesn't suit me at all!
0.5/5
Gigantic Brain's The Invasion Discography isn't all that better. There's screaming vocals and guitar feedback, all of which seems so f***ed up. And that goes on for... 63 tracks in one hour?!? HOLY F***ING SH*T!!! The Meshuggah-like structure that has occurred in a few tracks gives the release a half-star added to the rating. The harsh vocals that range from growls to shrieks are laughable at both ends, not helping with the gross-a** grind. It is avant-garde in the sense of adding dissonant electronics and ambience, but let me tell you... While the sound really hurts like a b***h, I'm glad to have over a decade of metal/heaviness experience. Otherwise, this would kill me within seconds. This is only for those truly experienced with grindcore and the rest of The Horde clan. I think this sh*t might just be at least close to the dangerous-to-access Lands of Death in my possible Metal Academy MMORPG Clan Map: https://metal.academy/forum/23/thread/271
1/5
I didn't even put the reviews in their release pages because I'm only up to writing them in only one post. I'm wondering why the f*** I even checked that torturous bullsh*t out. Oh yeah, because I want to test my strength in cybergrind and see if they're suitable for The Infinite as avant-garde metal. Good news: They are. Bad news: They really taint the sacredness of the clan. All in all, grindcore and cybergrind don't work well for me in most of their releases. I need to f***ing control my curiosity!
I can't say that I'm surprised to hear your feelings on these two releases Andi. I mean, the definition of cybergrind is "the combination of the standard conventions of Grindcore taken to an even more discordant and rapidfire extreme, with the added Electronic dimensions of computer generated noises and drum machines i.e. grindcore with electronics layered over the top for added extremity. You've historically always hated grindcore from what I've seen so I never would have suggested that you might get a lot out of these releases. Has this experience changed your opinion on the cybergrind qualifiations of Genghis Tron's "Cloak of Love" at all now that you've had the opportunity to hear a couple of releases that I consider to be genuine cybergrind?
P.S. Sub-one-minute tracks are par for the course with grindcore. In fact, the Agoraphobic Nosebleed record I reviewed last week included 100 tracks over the course of it's brief 21 minute duration.
Indeed it has, Daniel. That suffering experience made me realize what cybergrind really is, so I might vote YES in your Horde removal Hall entry for that Genghis Tron EP after all. Interestingly though, the one track in the EP to qualify as cybergrind, "Ride the Steambolt" is solid enough to be a highlight for me, and one of the bands I started listening to recently, The Red Chord has a technical mix of deathcore and deathgrind in their releases that I enjoy, especially their first couple albums. So while I do hate grindcore as a release's entire genre, if it's just for one or two tracks in a release, or if elements of the genre appear in an album with a different primary genre, whether or not a grindcore subgenre is also a primary genre for that release, then it is, for my taste, acceptable.