Daniel's Forum Replies

Thrashy & aggressive US sludge metal from San Francisco. For fans of High On Fire, Torche & early Mastodon.

Black Cobra - "Invernal" (2011)

Thrashy, up-tempo & aggressive San Francisco sludge metal from the Southern Lord label. Black Cobra sound a lot like an ultra-angry super group comprised of members High On Fire & early Mastodon with Ministry front man Al Jourgenson behind the microphone here. It's fucking awesome actually & I can't believe it's received so little attention. I also can't believe that this has been produced by a two-piece.

4.5/5

I don't know a lot about epic doom either, but here's what I think. Sure there are some bands of that subgenre like Candlemass, Doomsword, Solitude Aeturnus, Solstice, and While Heaven Wept, and the classical influences and fantasy lyrics give the genre an "epic" feel. Those characteristics are unique, but they don't change a lot about standard doom metal. Plus, there are other metal genres that have that "epic" feel like all the Guardians genres, and the word "epic" has been done to death when describing genres that already have suitable names, which is a reason why the one subgenre with that feel that could use the name "Epic Metal" is the one with the questionable name, US power metal. And I'm sure most epic doom fans like the standard doom that inspired this "epic" subgenre.

I agree. I actually don't think there are enough epic doom bands to warrant its own subgenre &, from my limited experience with those bands, I don't think the unique identifiers are enough to warrant it either. It'll be interesting to hear what some of our more well informed members have to say on this topic though.

I know you directed that question to SilentScream, Daniel, but I know some unique characteristics of US power metal. The scene/subgenre has inspired speed metal, not been inspired by, drawing more influence from traditional heavy metal. Compared to European power metal, it's faster and more energetic with more riffs and less keyboards. It can be considered a more melodic thrash metal with greater guitar leads. And the Americans have started the usage of high operatic vocals that would carry over to the Europeans and even Australians. A couple examples that I enjoy are Sanctuary and the first two Nevermore albums. I guess because of the more epic musical/lyrical themes from bands like Manowar, Cirith Ungol, and Iced Earth that would inspire bands of other Guardians (sub)genres, we can change the name US power metal to... "Epic Metal", like "epic doom metal" without the doom!

Quoted shadowdoom9

See this is where it gets confusing for me because in my experience a good portion of European power metal utilizes speed metal as its basis (the last few tracks on the monthly The Guardian playlists are often made up of this stuff) & a good portion of US power metal is at more moderate tempos too. Let's take our current The Guardians feature release for example as it was the most highly regarded US power metal release of last year as far as I can tell. It never comes close to speed metal, let alone thrash. It's much more in line with the original intention of the US power metal scene term. It doesn't use operatic vocals either. It is however heavily slanted towards the epic atmospheres (particularly in the vocals, themes & imagery) & would fit comfortably under the "epic metal" tag if it was available. It's definitely closer to heavy metal than it is European power metal but has a couple of tracks that push into power metal territory. Have you heard it? How does it compare with your understanding of US power metal?

Maybe clan members should decide what subgenres are worth adding to their own clans as they've (presumably) the most knowledge, experience, and passion for those genres.

Great idea, SilentScream!

Quoted shadowdoom9

That's always been the intent guys.

Musically, USPM in my experience employs more double bass, more galloping, tremolo picking and palm muting, and more keys/piano than traditional heavy metal. This usually makes it sound quite a bit heavier and faster than pure HM, and much more rhythmic. Thematically it tends to play on fantasy (including sci-fi), history (including medieval/mythology) , and in general more "intellectual/nerdy" material than heavy metal. It often aims for an epic atmosphere and is more prone to melodramatic, hammy vocal deliveries (or conversely more gruff vocals akin to Thrash) and power ballads. 

See that just sounds like regular power metal to me.

I don't know as much about epic doom as some of you likely do but I have a few questions:

1. Are there enough bands that champion the epic doom sound to warrant it's own subgenre?

2. Are the unique characteristics of epic doom strong enough to command that it's kept separate from conventional doom metal?

3. Are there epic doom fans that don't like conventional doom & vice versa?

The traditional doom metal topic is a difficult one for me to find a firm personal stance on to be honest. I think the tag has been poorly used over the years & that's perhaps due to history as much as anything. I mean Witchfinder General's "Death Penalty" album certainly has some doomy riffs on almost every track but, when taken in holistically, it's only really the last couple of songs that could be classed as legitimate doom metal. In fact, "Death Penalty" is clearly just paying homage to Black Sabbath & the godfathers of heavy metal are not considered to be a doom metal band so I'm not surprised that someone going into it looking for doom would be a little disappointed. Saint Vitus' sophomore album "Hallow's Victim" is another one where I question the validity of its doom claim but it seems to be universally held up as a landmark release for the genre. So when you've got seriously important releases like those ones muddying the waters then more modern doom fans looking back in time for inspiration are bound to get confused, particularly when you've got a total doom-fest like Candlemass' "Epicus Doomicus Metallicus" being labelled with the same subgenre tag. Don't ask me what's going on there as that record's about as doom as doom gets.

When it comes down to it, I actually don't think the genuine doom metal tracks on those early releases are different enough to modern doom to warrant a differentiator. If you had a full album of that stuff then I don't think it'd be open to discussion. The influence of 70's blues/psychedelic/hard/prog rock isn't a doom deal breaker when it's incorporated into that framework in my opinion. It's the inclusion of a number of tracks that aren't very doomy at all that starts blurring things (particularly the faster heavy metal driven ones) but that doesn't mean that we have a new subgenre in my opinion. We've just got a band incorporating a few different influences or possibly residing in two genres rather than an entirely different brand of doom metal. One person's proto-doom is another's hard rock if you know what I mean. So overall I think I lean closer to omitting traditional doom metal & using more discretion when using the conventional doom metal tag than I do to including it.

I'm not by any means an expert on modern US power metal SilentScream213 so I'm very open to learning. Out of interest, what are the unique characteristics of modern US power metal that differentiate it from your garden varieties of heavy metal, power metal or speed metal? Do you have an example you could show us? Even if there are some unique identifying characteristics in modern US power metal, I still have a problem with labelling a subgenre with a location. If we have our genre tags right then they should be linking bands that sound the same together & if we were to go with US power metal as a subgenre of heavy metal then a Japanese band that had the US power metal sound would presumably be excluded from the same subgenre as the US bands. That doesn't make any sense to me. Perhaps if this is a unique sound then a new subgenre label is a better way to go?

For the record, we're not going for simplicity or convenience. Ben & I just want to make each subgenre relevant & feel that our competition often doesn't do that. The question we often ask ourselves when discussing these topics is "are there metalheads that like this subgenre but not it's primary genre & vice versa?" If the answer is no then it sometimes tells us that the subgenre isn't all that relevant, at least not within the clan context we have here. When it's yes (as it most certainly is with melodeath) then there's a strong justification for providing the differentiator. But as Ben said above, Metal Academy is a constantly evolving process of improvement & we feel very strongly about taking our clan member's opinions onboard when looking for direction on these topics so keep the feedback coming.

they also demoted melodic metalcore to a secondary subgenre of metalcore.

I agree with that move. I've always felt that it was completely unnecessary to have a separate primary for melodic metalcore, particularly as there isn't one for melodic death metal or melodic black metal. I've always felt that melodic metalcore was simply a variant of the conventional metalcore model & my experiences with putting together the monthly The Revolution Spotify playlists over the last six months have seen me finding significant crossover between the two genres.

The other new move that RYM have made is to move Nintendocore out from under Melodic Metalcore & into Hardcore Punk. This is a good move for mine as I've been hearing very little metal in the Nintendocore releases we've been including.

The Southern metal thing has me baffled to be honest. I'm not really experienced enough in it to make a firm call one way or the other but my early experiences have seen very little need to separate the associated releases from heavy metal, stoner metal, sludge metal or any other subgenre for that matter. The tag is meant to indicate the strong influence of Southern rock bands like Lynard Skynard on an artist's sound however I haven't felt that the end result was even close to being significant enough for its own subgenre on the releases that I've heard to date & the basis for each band's sound always seems to fall into an already defined genre for its basic building blocks so I'd be more likely to see the term "Southern" as an additional descriptor than a primary genre, particularly as the bands it currently encompasses offer a wide array of sounds but just happen to have a little Southern influence. That shouldn't be a reason to link Down, Black Label Society & Glorior Belli together in my opinion. That's just my two cents but if we do end up including Southern Metal then The Fallen is the obvious choice as it seems to fit very comfortably there.

The NWOBHM thing seems like a no-brainer to me. It's referring to a scene from a distinct period rather than any defined sound & encompassed everything from heavy metal to hard rock to speed metal to doom metal & even progressive rock. There is kind of a trademark NWOBHM sound but the problem is that only a portion of NWOBHM bands sounded like that & if a band came out of Sweden with exactly that sound today we wouldn't be able to label it as NWOBHM because a) it's not British & b) it's not from 1979-83. Also, literally every British heavy rock/metal band from that period is considered to be NWOBHM which tells you it's not a subgenre of music. 

I have very similar feelings about US power metal as the original term was only ever intended to draw together American bands from the 1983-89 period that dropped the hard rock influence the NWOBHM was built on & went for a chunkier yet still melodic metal sound. All of these bands fit comfortably into the heavy metal, speed metal or progressive metal categories anyway (see Savatage, Queensryche, Armored Saint, Manilla Road, etc.) so why bother labelling them with another tag that only confuses fans of the European model of power metal. There's also a bit of contradiction in the fact that the early works from bands like Anthrax & Laaz Rockit were strangely omitted from the label despite seemingly ticking all of the required boxes. These days it seems that the younger audience have started taking the tag literally & are labelling modern American bands that have adopted the European power metal model as US power metal (which kinda makes more sense to be honest) & that's seen the tags original intention being muddied significantly. My opinion is that the US power metal tag doesn't refer to a specific sound & is totally location & period-specific so it's a scene & not a subgenre. If an American release is legitimate power metal then simply label it as power metal. If it's some fairly powerful & intense heavy metal then label it as heavy metal.

So you haven't noticed anything different about the site over the last 24 hours then Andi?

I've already asked Ben to add them.

Isis - "The Mosquito Control" E.P. (1998)

Sonny, I'd recommend that you check this angry little beast out if you haven't already.

KYPCK - "Черно" (2008)

Andi, I think you might dig this Finnish doom metal debut as there's a significant amount of gothic metal influence here without ever leaving doom metal territory.

Some well produced & very heavy Finnish doom metal for fans of Type O Negative, Crowbar & Triptykon.

KYPCK - "Черно" (2008)

The debut album from this Finnish doom metal outfit whose name is pronounced "Kursk". It's a very heavy release with a noticeable amount of gothic metal influence scattered across most of the tracklisting & the lyrics are presented in Russian so as to stay in line with the band's cold war gimmick. I have to admit that the Russian vocals don't do a lot for me but the crushing doom riffage & overall professionalism of the composition & arrangements is outstanding so I'd recommend that fans of Type O Negative, Crowbar & Triptykon check it out. 

4/5

A sludge metal masterpiece from before Isis became one of the gods of post-metal. For fans of Acid Bath, Old Man Gloom & Eyehategod.

Isis - "The Mosquito Control" E.P. (1998)

I still think Isis' debut release "The Mosquito Control" E.P. is one of the most underrated metal releases ever recorded. It's the very definition of what sludge metal is for me. It's ridiculously heavy & as angry as a balaclava full of bees but still manages to cover more cerebral ground than most sludge bands can achieve. I know this isn't a common opinion but this is actually my favourite Isis release & that's saying something as they're one of my all-time favourite bands. For fans of Acid Bath, Old Man Gloom & Eyehategod.

5/5

Yeah it's an absolute stunner, isn't it? One of my favourite tracks from the album.

Ben, please add Finnish doom metallers KYPCK, American sludge metallers Black Cobra & Japanese sludge metallers Greenmachine.

Classic doom metal & a fitting way to end Cathedral's recorded career. This epic track pays clear tribute to Cathedral's early days but the lengthy four minute climax section sounds a lot like something Opeth might have done in a live environment in my opinion. For fans of Pentagram, early Trouble & Celtic Frost's doomier material.

Cathedral - "The Last Spire" (2013)

These UK doom metal legends decided to turn back the clock for their final studio effort & it resulted in their heaviest, doomiest record since their classic 1991 debut album "Forest Of Equilibrium". A particularly chunky production job gets full value out of the wealth of wonderfully slow riffs & this enables the instrumentalists to easily achieve enough quality to cater for Lee Dorian's trademark vocal delivery which can be more than a little grating at the best of times. All six of the proper tracks fall comfortably into classic doom territory however only a couple of them stay there for their entire duration with the other four offering hints at traditional doom metal, stoner metal & progressive rock which I would imagine might have been a conscious attempt to summarize the bands career. Hell, there are even touches of gothic metal & death metal tossed about once or twice but these flurries of variation never last too long before a monstrous riff of pure doom tears its way back into the fold & crushes you under its enormous weight. Some of the song structures do sound a touch forced with widely disparate parts being pasted together without much in the way of natural progression however the power of the riff comes out on top on most occasions with Lee's more major failings predictably making for Cathedral's weakest moments. Is it just me or do a couple of tracks sound very much like Celtic Frost's doomier moments? I don't think I'm imagining it & would be surprised if it was pure coincidence. "The Last Spire" isn't a perfect record by any stretch but it's a damn sight more appealing than anything I've heard from Cathedral in a a very long time & I have to admit to being surprised by how much I enjoyed it.

For fans of Pentagram, early Trouble & Celtic Frost's doomier material.

4/5

Did you submit your rating for this one Chris? When I go to the release page I can only see saxy's & mine. Just wondering if there's a database issue or if you just forgot. Plus, it could effect our The Sphere Release Of The Year award result.

OK, so allow me to retort...

1. Killing Machine is a good album, but Rocka Rolla is unremarkable. Neither are a patch on Stained Class and Sad Wings.

2. Really?? err... OK. That IS an unpopular opinion (and it IS a shit record).

4, I disagree. Exciter, Stained Class and Beyond the Realms of Death are all among Priest's best songs.

Quoted Sonny92

Unlike most people, I don't find "Rocka Rolla" to be all that unremarkable. I can understand the claims that it's lacking a bit of focus as there's certainly a lot of jumping around stylistically but you could also say that this equates to some interesting variety. I really enjoy the progressive & psychedelic components & (with the exception of "Winter Retreat") find it to be a very consistent record as far as overall quality goes. In fact, "Run Of The Mill" is an amazing piece of work & it takes up over 20% of the run time. I think "Rocka Rolla" suffers a lot from the fact that it's not a metal record. In my experience Priest fans don't generally take too kindly to that sort of thing.

I really like "Sad Wings Of Destiny" (with the exception of "Epitaph") but I just don't think it has as many highlights as people make out. "Victim Of Changes" is the only classic for me personally & I've never thought a track like "Tyrant" was as special as some people make it out to be.

There's definitely a strong case for claiming "Stained Class" to be the most consistently metal release to the time but that doesn't make me like it more than some of Priest other 70's releases. I've never understood why "Exciter" is held up on such a pedestal. It sounds pretty light-weight & bouncy to my ears & makes me feel like tapping my toe more than bang my head which is not a positive observation. It's not in the same league as an absolute banger of an opener like "Delivering The Goods" or "Victim Of Changes" in my opinion. I've never thought the title track was all that remarkable either actually. My faves from "Stained Class" are "Better by You, Better Than Me", "Beyond the Realms of Death" & "Heroes End" with the cover being my pick of the bunch. I dunno about you but I actually don't like "Invader" much. It's the only dud on the tracklisting for mine.

"Turbo" was my introduction to Priest & came at a very impressionable time in my life. It was the age of arena rock megastars so I was already well accustomed to a bit of hair metal pomp. "Turbo Lover" & "Out In The Cold" not only sit amongst my favourite Priest tracks ever but I actually hold them up as some of the greatest heavy metal anthems ever recorded so that obviously skews my opinion a bit. Sure there are a couple of overly commerical duds in the middle of the tracklisting (see "Rock You All Around the World" & "Parental Guidance") but that was hardly unusual for a Priest album to the time & the rest of the album is actually very strong if you can deal with a bit of 80's synth work in the production (which I clearly can). I honestly can't fault tracks like "Locked In" & "Hot For Love". Even "Private Property" gets me going if I'm honest.

OK, so it's time for me to share some of my wacky Judas Priest opinions. Don't say I didn't warn you. :)

1. Priest's best 70's studio albums were "Killing Machine" & "Rocka Rolla".

2. "Turbo" is one of Judas Priest's top three studio albums.

3. "Screaming For Vengeance" isn't as metal as it's made out to be & is overrated.

4. "Stained Class" is a consistent release but is lacking in the highlights department.

5. "Sin After Sin" has a three track quality hole in the middle of the album which makes it Priest's weakest 70's release.

6. "Living After Midnight" is an absolute shocker.

I've noticed our monthly feature release for The Sphere (Uniform's "Shame" album) is making good ground on Code Orange's "Underneath" for the industrial metal crown. I'd imagine we'll likely get another rating or two before the end of the month which could see it taking the biscuits. It'll be interesting to see what eventuates there.

Unbelievably downtrodden, disconsolate & emotionally engaging English doom metal for fans of 40 Watt Sun, Pallbearer & My Dying Bride.

Warning - "Watching From A Distance" (2006)

Warning's 2006 sophomore album is the absolute epitome of the classic doom metal sound in my opinion. The majestic atmosphere of dread & despair that I crave so much has rarely been presented in a more pure form than it is here. When I first heard "Watching From A Distance" back in 2009 I found that I really struggled with Patrick Walker's whiny vocal style but I have to admit that time has seen his genuinely emotive & honest approach burrowing under my skin to such an extent that I now regard him as one of the key components in what makes Warning so great. Musically, this may as well be funeral doom metal in that it's incredibly slow with an atmosphere that's so downtrodden & disconsolate that I'd imagine many metalheads will struggle with their own feelings. In fact it's use of dark but stunningly beautiful & melancholic guitar harmonies reminds me of Mournful Congregation's "Weeping" demo in that way & that can only be a good thing as I worshipped that tape in the mid-90's. You'll get hints at the early works of classic death/doom acts like My Dying Bride & Anathema here at times too only the high register clean vocals keep it centered in classic doom territory & seem inspired by Ozzy Osbourne's darker & more sombre 70's performances. Some will adore "Watching From A Distance" while others will undoubtedly find it depressing. For me personally, it creates a strangely uplifting & empowering feeling & by the end of the five epic tracks I feel emotionally drained but thoroughly rewarded. There are few releases that can have this sort of impact on the listener.

For fans of 40 Watt Sun, Pallbearer & My Dying Bride.

4.5/5

"An Anthology Of Dead Ends" is really just the five tracks totaling roughly twenty-two minutes in duration with a 14 second intro piece that might as well be a part of the second track. (In fact I see very little reason to separate "Spaim" other than to create another silly song title with a country's name misspelt with an "m" in place of the "n".) It is however an incredibly well composed, executed & compiled piece of art in every sense with stunning musicianship & a precision production job that allows all of the instruments to breathe beautifully. Perhaps it's just the fact that it's a touch less chaotic & the intensity isn't quite as relentless that sees it falling a little short of its older sibling "We Are The Romans" which I regard as the pinnacle of the mathcore subgenre.

 If you want to be technical about it you could argue that this isn't purely a mathcore release as I'd suggest that only two of the five proper tracks fall into that category. "Japam" & "Micaragua" sit more comfortably under the traditional metalcore tag in my opinion while the laidback seven minute centrepiece of the album "Afghamistam" is pretty much alternative rock only with some wonderfully executed rhythmic complexity that will likely pass over many people's heads if they're not paying close attention. David Verellen's vocals often remind me of Pantera's Phil Anselmo's screamier moments & there are a few bouncier riffs that almost hint at a Rage Against The Machine influence & this all makes for a very interesting listen however only "Vietmam" & the crushingly cerebral & noise-laden closer "Micaragua" manage to reach classic status for me personally.

While I can't say that this E.P. blows me away in quite the same way as "We Are The Romans" did, it's still a very solid release & a fitting way to end a short but captivating career.

4/5

P.S. I'll be interested to see what saxy thinks of this one as I get the feeling that it might not repulse him as much as other mathcore releases do.

One of the more black metal oriented tracks from US blackened mathcore outfit Serpent Column's "Endless Detainment" E.P. from last year (this month's feature release for The North). What a belter! One of the tracks of the year in my opinion. For fans of Deathspell Omega, Krallice & Plebeian Grandstand.

Serpent Column's "Endless Detainment" is a really chaotic little E.P. full of short stop/start style blast-fests with shrieking, unintelligible vocals & a dense & inaccessible production. It's almost unimaginable to think that it might have been produced by just the two musicians to be perfectly honest. I don't think anyone will be too surprised that this release was right up my alley though given my love of both black metal & mathcore & to their credit Serpent Column have done a splendid job at combining the two genres in a fluent & exciting way with neither style taking the ascendancy. If pushed I'd suggest that the mathcore component might slightly outweigh the black metal one as I think you'll struggle if you don't enjoy mathcore but could probably still get by if you're not into black metal. There's a considerable amount of complexity to a lot of this material & the duo deserve full credit for managing to keep it all together. It's interesting that I've seen little mention of the significant grindcore component too as it's pretty obvious across a number of the nine tracks. The short run time certainly helps to make this a more palatable experience & I ended up playing it three times in a row without feeling like I needed a break to recover this morning. Perhaps "Endless Detainment" might have been better served as a The Revolution feature but I got a lot of enjoyment out of it & think it was a worthy inclusion.

For fans of Deathspell Omega, Plebeian Grandstand & Krallice.

4/5

Live albums are overrated

I've got a good one:

Ben's opinions are overrated.

Uniform - "Shame" (2020)

Chris Van Etten, I think you'll dig this one.

Noisy New York industrial metal for fans of Godflesh, Ministry & Big Black.

I thoroughly enjoyed this feature release. I hadn't actually heard Uniform before I started putting together the monthly "The Sphere" Spotify playlists but they immediately grabbed my attention & I've included a few more tracks from "Shame" in the subsequent months. The first thing you'll notice upon pressing play is the unusual production job which is intentionally cold, noisy & devoid of colour (very much like the album cover actually) with little attention given to separating the individual instruments. Uniform's sound brings together a number of different influences however there's little doubt that it sits most comfortably under the industrial metal banner as they spend plenty of time in both Godflesh & Ministry camps at various stages with the vocal delivery reminding me of a more hardcore-inflicted version of Godflesh mastermind Justin Broadrick one minute & Ministry main man Al Jourgensen the next. On top of that industrial backbone you get plenty of noise rock, hardcore punk & sludge metal references along the way with some fairly raw Burzum-esque black metal instrumentation (complete with blast beats) tossed in on a couple of tracks as well. I actually feel that "Shame"s best moments are when Uniform explore their slower, bleaker & sludgier atmospheres as that's when they're at their most crushing & the noisy production is most appropriate. This is a very solid album with no real weak tracks & I found it to be a worthy recipient of this month's feature release.

For fans of Godflesh, Ministry & Big Black.

4/5

According to the latest studies, 14 years of age is where this phenomenon is at its strongest.

1. "Crystal Mountain" is comfortably the weakest song on Death's "Symbolic".

2. "Peace Sells... But Who's Buying?" is Megadeth's best record.

3. "Super Collider" isn't all that bad for a poppy metal record & is superior to four or five of Megadeth's other albums.

4. "Countdown To Extinction" & "Killing Is My Business... And Business is Good!" are both inessential.

5. "Painkiller" is Judas Priest's only genuinely classic album.

*Prepares for the inevitable backlash to my horrifying (but completely honest) claims* :)

Epic US power metal for fans of Manilla Road, Brocas Helm & Omen.

This one unsurprisingly took me a little outside my comfort zone but not in a bad way. I guess I enjoy the concept of epic metal more than I do the actual result in most cases but this release won me over after a few listens. It fits very comfortably under the US power metal banner in my opinion as the epic atmospheres & strong melodic component are built around a base of traditional heavy metal which is a little different to the more speed metal oriented European power metal sound. The fantasy-themed vocals remind me very heavily of Manilla Road's Mark Shelton & I'd be surprised if this wasn't intentional as the Road seem to be the major influence here. Both sides open with the tracks that offer me the most appeal & I was impressed with the chunky, well-composed heavy metal riffage & exciting & expansive lead solos which are easily proficient enough to keep this old shredder on his toes. There are also some doomy sections thrown in here & there which are pretty cool, particularly on closing track "Banners Of Arhai". Unfortunately the more melodic & overtly power metal oriented material doesn't do a lot for me (see "War At The Edge Of The World" & particularly the title track which has a very cheesy chorus) but "Ravening Iron" definitely offers enough to keep my interest without ever really threatening to command regular revisits.

For fans of Manilla Road, Brocas Helm & Omen.

3.5/5

^^^^^^^

Outstanding post right there.

Everyone's opinion is valid here at Metal Academy Andi so don't feel bad for challenging the consensus view. In saying that though, I think you made the right call to pull that nomination as I never found myself questioning the metal credentials of "The Great Cold Distance" across any of my five listens this weekend.

1. King Diamond is a terrible vocalist and the real talent in Mercyful Fate has always been Denner and Shermann.  That withstanding, none of their albums are worthy of nearly half of the praise they receive and all of KD's solo releases are boring.

2. Likewise, Joey Belladonna is an overrated vocalist and Anthrax's output is patchy at best.

3. Voivod have never released a good album and are none of my business.

4. Amon Amarth have been releasing the same album for the last 29 years and it is still boring.

5. The internet has too many fucking lists on it.

6. Iron Maiden were at their best when Paul Di'Anno was on vocals.

7. Meshuggah sacrifice power and passion in their music in favour of unnecessary complexity.

8. AC/DC are massively overrated and nowhere near as influential as fans make them out to be.

Despite the fact that I've grown to love King Diamond over time, I agree that the real gold comes via his accompanying instrumentalists. It wasn't only the guitarists with Mercyful Fate. Drummer Kim Ruzz was absolutely on fire on records like "Melissa" too. I have to admit that I actually prefer some of the King's solo material over Fate's best work & Andy LaRocque is a major component of that. I think it comes down to my age as much as anything as, even though I prefer the darker Fate atmosphere, I can't deny my attraction to the flashier, shreddier solo work.

I really love Joey Belladonna to be honest. He's a major reason for my long-time love of records like "Spreading The Disease" & "Among The Living". Not only can he really sing but he also possesses enormous charisma & brings a level of x-factor that's hard to define.

The internet can never have too many lists. In fact, I think there should be a separate internet specifically for lists. If that was the case I'd probably never visit Google again.

I disagree on the Meshuggah topic. Their complexity is half of the attraction for an old muso like me as it's just so over the top. They're still ridiculously heavy too.

If you spent as much time researching & listening to the NWOBHM as Ben & I did whilst preparing for the Metal Academy podcast you may change your mind on the AC/DC topic. Sure they've released the same album a thousand times in a row but almost every underground NWOBHM band took as much influence from AC/DC as they did from Black Sabbath, Judas Priest (who took their own influence from AC/DC) or Motorhead. I don't think I was prepared for just how important they were to the development of that scene & metal in general. Van Halen too for that matter. 

Here are my general ones

1. Lyrics matter. Bad lyrics ruin good stuff for me, and they always equate into a rating unless I don't understand the language (even then I will translate if possible). Bad lyrics are no different than bad guitar to me. 

2. I don't care about impact or historical significance or anything like that. I listen to music in a vacuum. And thus...

3. 70's metal, in general, is not that great. It's only revered because it came first. Basically one riff and a guitar solo away from Hard Rock. There was almost no innovation for the first decade, whereas the 80's saw a massive explosion in subgenres, technique, delivery, etc. There is not a single 70's metal album I consider a masterpiece, with Judas Priest's Sin After Sin being my favorite, but nowhere near my top.

4. Atmosphere, mood, emotion, delivery > technical skill, prowess, wankery, complexity 

5. Doom Metal is one of my favorite genres, but 80's Doom is really bland. Even Cadlemass is not among my favorite Doom artists. I feel 80's Doom had not yet captured the - as I mention above - atmosphere and mood that it gained in the 90's that made it a truly melancholic genre rather than just a lethargic and boring one.

Here are more specific ones

1. All In Flames albums are great, and their dive into Alternative Metal still makes them one of the most innovative bands ever. One day people will realize these guys basically perfected Pop Metal and once the stigma for that dies I believe they will get the credit they deserve.

2. Since I see the name being thrown around... Thrash Voivod > Prog Voivod

3. Most underground Thrash is better than any of the Big 4 barring Slayer. The other 3 were pretty much Thrash lite and that's probably why they got popular. (I still love them, just love my dark underground Thrash more).

4. St. Anger is not that bad? Not great, but... 

I honestly don't care all that much about lyrics unless they have a significant impact on the atmosphere which I would say is quite rare. I'd also suggest that this wasn't always the case for me though. When I was much younger & had to purchase physical copies of everything I would spend hours & hours pondering over lyric sheets but at the end of the day I'm a musician who cares much more for the sounds coming out of the speakers than I do the lyrics, image or cover art.

I can certainly understand people not getting into 70's metal. I personally only regard one 70's release as a genuine metal classic (i.e. "Paranoid") however I don't agree that there was very little innovation going on. Albums like Black Sabbath's "Sabbath Bloody Sabbath", Rainbow's "Rising" or Legend's "From The Fjords" were all pushing metal music forwards in my opinion.

In regards to 80's doom metal, again I can understand where you're coming from there. The traditional model wasn't as targeted as it was the result of a wider array of influences (perhaps the result of rock music being at its absolute peak during the 70's) & isn't for everyone. I think the popularity of party-time hair metal probably encouraged people to provide a response in the other direction by the late 80's.

I like Voivod's first couple of releases but don't think they compare to their next few albums. They only really got going with "Killing Technology" in my opinion.

I think the best work of the Big Four is hard to top. Sure there are bands that were/are more consistent but few can match the mid-to-late 80's output of those four bands.

"St. Anger" really is that bad in my opinion. Unlistenably bad in fact.

What a stunning example of high class alternative metal with a progressive attitude! For fans of Tool, Deftones & Opeth.

I have to say that I'm surprised at your general feelings of lethargy around this album Andi because I get a very different vibe from "A Great Cold Distance". It's anything but commercially accessible in my opinion. It's actually a dark, moody & atmospheric beast that's highly progressive in structure & only opens up upon repeat listens. In fact it's one of those rare releases that possess hooks so subtle that they creep up on you over time, only to have a more long-lasting effect once they dig their teeth in by commanding a greater level of emotional engagement. As justification for this statement, I actually had to give this album a full five listens before passing judgement (I usually go with three) because I found that my feelings were growing exponentially with each revisit & I wanted to give them time to settle. 

The production & performances are nothing short of spectacular & I'm genuinely in awe of Katatonia's class, professionalism & overall consistency. I mean there's not a single track that comes close to failure with more than half of the tracklisting pushing out into classic territory. Jonas Renkse's smooth vocal delivery can sound a touch repetitive & monotonous on first listen as he stays well within himself for the majority of the album however it wasn't long before I realized the suitability of this approach as a foil for the moodier thematic content & atmosphere.

RYM has this record tagged as an alternative metal primary with doom metal & gothic rock secondaries. The secondaries are completely misguided as there's very little of either sound included but how they haven't got progressive metal listed as at least a secondary is anyone's guess. In fact, I'm gonna go with it as a second primary as this release isn't too dissimilar to Tool's post-2000 material & I'd suggest that it'd sit pretty comfortably under The Infinite. 

I honestly didn't think I'd be saying this going into "The Great Cold Distance" but it may have displaced "Brave Murder Day" as my favourite Katatonia release & provides further evidence that the band will be successful at any musical endeavor they undertake. Fans of Tool, Deftones & Opeth should get a lot out of it if they allow it the time to reveal its charms.

4.5/5

I like these spicy hot takes! Here's some of mine:

• Slayer's Reign in Blood is shit. I never cared for Slayer, and even though Seasons in the Abyss is a classic in every sense of the word, most people excuse this album's awful production as part of the charm. It's not.
• Anthrax were (and still are) the best of the big four. But since were on the topic...
• Testament are the best thrash band that came out of the eighties, with the best overall discography of any of the big four, and should have been apart of the big four instead of that meandering solo shit show that is Dave Mustaine's Megadeth.
• Pantera fans are the worst fans in all of metal. Their idolization of this band as a deity who are incapable of critique is honestly terrifying and my favour with the band has deteriorated greatly because of it since the passing of Dimebag.
• Emperor's best album was Prometheus
• Ænima is still Tool's worst album. Even after having Fear Inoculum for over a year.
• Opeth's progressive rock pivot of the 2010s is not as bad as you initially thought.

That's all I got for now. If this thread keeps up and I see some more spicy hot takes, I may update.

What about the production job on "Reign In Blood" doesn't float your boat exactly? I'm intrigued as its generally regarded as the benchmark that all other thrash records are judged against. It's also my all-time favourite metal release.

Despite really loving "Spreading The Disease" & "Among The Living", I'd say that Anthrax are the least substantial of the Big Four personally.

I've never seen Testament as being on the same level as the Big Four. Their first couple of records were obviously very strong but didn't really push the thrash genre forwards & weren't done any favours by their thin production jobs. I don't think I've ever rated one of their records above a 4/5 to be honest. They're the definition of a second tier artist for mine.

I get where you're coming but my recent experiences with Twitter have shown that obsessive Metallica fans are much less tolerable than Pantera's. That platform is literally full of people whose primary mission in life is to try to convince people that Metallica's post-Black Album material is actually comprised of a long list of unheralded classics.

"Prometheus" was a solid release but I'd have to go with the majority on this one. "In The Nightside Eclipse" is the pinnacle of Emperor's career for mine with the releases either side of it rounding out the top three.

I rate "Aenima" as a genuine classic & Tool's second-best album behind "Lateralus.

I agree about Opeth's prog rock era. I don't think that band are capable of producing rubbish.

I'd go so far as to say that I've never heard a melodeath release that I regard as a legitimate classic.

Voivod never have & never will be a thrash metal band.

Not even At the Gates' Slaughter of the Soul? That's THE melodeath classic!

I've never heard a lot of people besides you say Voivod isn't thrash metal at all. #6 on your list, Daniel!

No, not even "Slaughter Of The Soul" which I regard as the finest melodeath release I've ever heard.

And with regards to Voivod, Ben & I have often pondered as to why no one has questioned their thrash credentials before because it's always seemed like a stretch to both of us. In fact, since I started advertising my opinions on this topic I've received a general agreement from most people I've spoken to so I stand by my position on that. You don't agree?