Sonny's Forum Replies

Oh man, that is one horrible album cover... but it is a pretty amusing title all the same!

I agree with Daniel that Sabbath Bloody Sabbath is a better album than  Vol.4, except that I would probably go further and rate it as one of my all-time favourite heavy metal albums. Sabbath stretched out and expanded their sound into more progressive territory, even adding Rick Wakeman of Yes on keyboards to hammer the point home. Yet this is still fundamentally a heavy metal record and it is quite mind-boggling to realise that Sabbath were already taking the genre into a further dimension BEFORE ANYONE ELSE WAS EVEN PLAYING IT! It's almost as if everyone else was playing catch up even before they had started. Great songs abound: the title track, Sabbra Cadabra, Killing Yourself to Live, Spiral Architect and the amazing A National Acrobat (although after more than forty years I still don't know what that means - if you can enlighten me please do).

I honestly believe this is a hugely underrated album along with Sabotage, as Sabbath hit the sweet spot between the point where they had mastered their trade, particularly their songwriting and their coke-fuelled over-ambitious and sloppy phase that ultimately led to the mark one lineup's demise. Very few bands can match the Sab's run of albums from the debut to Sabotage and they made them all without following anyone else's template. I can't say for certain that Sabbath Bloody Sabbath is my favourite Sabbath album, but equally I can't say it's not!

Will get on it tomorrow...

Track by track commentary:

01.    Melvins – “Hag Me” (from “Houdini”, 1993)
I am seemingly one of the few who thinks that sometimes Melvins are extremely overrated. When they are good they are very good, however and this track is a pretty damn fine slab of sludgy, stoner-influenced doom metal. 8/10

02.    Funeral – “This Barren Skin” (from “From These Wounds”, 2006)
Gothic-led death doom that I’m sure appeals to the vast hordes of My Dying Bride fans, but I find most of this stuff outside a few of the more classy acts, insipid and bland, this included. 4.5/10

03.    Theatre Of Tragedy – “Venus” (from “Aegis”, 1998)
See above, add cheesy synths and Disney’s Beauty and the Beast-style vocals, then divide by ten - awful. The metal version of Jim Steinman. Luckily, Spotify played an ad after this and that was preferable! 1/10

04.    Katatonia – “Saw You Drown” (from “Discouraged Ones”, 1998)
..and so to the “mighty” Katatonia. I appreciate they are one of the darlings of the doom scene and indeed they do have their moments, but I really don’t rate them as all that. This would be a good track if the singer didn’t sound so fucking uninterested. 6/10

05.    Tiamat – “Cain” (from “Prey”, 2003)
Is this an outtake from Sisters of Mercy’s Vision Thing album? I’m sorry, but you’re losing me here, in fact I’m beginning to question if I’m actually listening to a metal playlist at all because most of this, up to this point, sounds like bands who would rather be playing anything but metal. 5/10

06.    Cult Of Luna – “Ghost Trail” (from “Eternal Kingdom”, 2008)
I like Cult of Luna very much and this is a nice builder of a track from an album I am unfamiliar with. 8/10

07.    Down – “Ghosts Along The Mississippi” (from “Down II: A Bustle In Your Hedgerow…”, 2002)
Loo-sianna-swamp-mud-thick grooves of southern fried stoner metal from the guy who used to be in that Pantera. 8/10

08.    Elder – “Release” (from “Spires Burn/Release” E.P., 2012)
A lengthy stoner jam from one of the great exponents of the form. 8/10

09.    Reverend Bizarre – “The Devil Rides Out” (from “II: Crush The Insects”, 2005) [Submitted by Sonny92]
I guess I’m biased as this is one of mine and I love Rev Biz anyway, but this is classic heavy metal-based trad doom with goofy Hammer-style horror lyrics. 9/10

10.    Saint Vitus – “Born Too Late” (from “Born Too Late”, 1986) [Submitted by Daniel]
Shit, I fuckin’ love that Wino guitar tone. A molasses-thick, crawling riff and Wino’s whiskey-soaked vocals that hints at smoky back rooms in seedy back alley bars. Outsider lyrics that hark back to a time when metal was still an outlaw brand of music instead of the corporate whore it sometimes appears to be nowadays.10/10

11.    Gore – “Extirpation” (from “Hart Gore”, 1986)
A band I must confess to being completely ignorant of prior to this, but this I like. 8/10

12.    Winter – “Servants Of The Warsmen” (from “Into Darkness”, 1990) [Submitted by Sonny92]
Now this is what I really call death doom, classic old-school shit that has more than a passing relationship with death metal. A true classic of death doom and an album every metalhead should own. 10/10

13.    My Dying Bride – “Catherine Blake” (from “Songs Of Darkness, Words Of Light”, 2004)
Classic-sounding MDB from one of their most popular albums, with a nod to gothic horror tales. 8/10

14.    Couch Slut – “I’m 14” (from “Take A Chance On Rock ‘n’ Roll”, 2020)
Genuine hardcore-derived sludge that shows it’s punk origins as much as it’s metal roots. 7/10

15.    Void Of Silence – “Opus II: With No Half-Measure” (from “Criteria ov 666” (2002) [Submitted by Ben]
More gothic metal-influenced doom, but at least this sounds a bit less polished being based on black metal rather than death metal and as such feels rawer and more vital than that tired old path. 7/10

16.    Boris – “Blackout” (Pink”, 2005) [Submitted by Daniel]
As a more recent convert to Boris I am probably still in a honeymoon phase with the band, but that said this is still a fantastic short droney crawl showcasing their own particular brand of noise metal.

17.    Esoteric – “Rotting In Dereliction” (from “A Pyrrhic Existence”, 2019) [Submitted by Sonny92]
The masters of funeral doom hit it out of the park with last year’s A Pyrrhic Existence and this is that album’s second best track. Bleak, hopeless, savage and anguished, it combines funeral and death doom in a crushing heavyweight of a track that strips away any pretentions and leaves a raw and exposed soul. 9/10

18.    Cult Leader – “Sympathetic” (from “Lightless Walk”, 2015)
Another band I’m unfamiliar with, but I like their angry-sounding, hardcore-derived sludge if this is typical of them. 7/10

Came close to binning this playlist by track five, to be honest. Fortunately it improved steeply after that point and I found a couple of new gems to explore.

Just got round to listening to Hexer's new album. Their combination of sludge and Autopsy/Winter-like death doom sets them apart from the slew of cookie cutter doom clones doing the rounds:

Hi Ben, could you add Ahab's Live Prey, Pallbearer's Forgotten Days and Hexer's Realm of the Feathered Serpent please.

Hi Ben please add Icelandic atmo-black project Auðn and Belarussian pagan black metallers Raven Throne's latest album Viartannie.

Sorry I've only just seen this thread.

Personally, as I have long since lost touch with any of my metal-loving friends and I love to talk metal, I enjoy the interaction of the forums immensely. However, it is sometimes difficult to sustain a prolonged discussion, probably due to the small number of active participants. The advantage of the forums here as opposed to those on RYM (where I don't really participate any more) is that MA forum users respect other's opinions whilst not necessarily agreeing with them and, consequently, don't have some smart arse jumping in with a smarmy comment deriding the music and it's fans every time anybody mentions the word "metal", like some deranged Pavlov's dog. Obviously I also love to rate and review music too and like to see what others think via their ratings and reviews. Incidentally, I don't know if it's just me but I seem unable to "like" reviews anymore as nothing happens when I press the button. Also love the playlists which is certainly a unique selling point, as is the Gallery.

I'm afraid I'm with MacabreEternal on the Hall of Judgement in that I have very little interest in it as I dislike the whole genre/micro-genre labelling fad that seems to have invaded metal.

My main gripe with the site is that it doesn't do much to promote new metal releases and sometimes feels like it exists in a bubble. I have no qualms at all with focussing on metal's glorious past, but a nod to the current and future would surely be welcome. How about an Album of the Month feature, maybe nominated by members and chosen from those nominations in similar vein to the playlists.

The lists feature seems to me to be something of a missed opportunity and is something I would like to see expanded, allowing other users to contribute because at the moment they are only a spectator sport for most of us, allowing us no participation and as a consequence a feature it is difficult to engage with. As you can probably tell from some of my forum threads I love a good list, but the forums are the only place we can post them.

Reading this back it sounds a little harsh in places and I have no wish to appear negative as I really do enjoy the site and thoroughly appreciate all the hard work both Ben and Daniel put in to provide something worthwhile and I'm sure their dedication will ultimately pay off.

I remember I gave it a couple of spins ages ago but don't recall it gripping me that much. I'll have to give it another go, maybe it'll resonate a bit more with me now.

As for the Sepultura version, is there even any point in commenting on these pointless covers any more? If Sepultura want to chase after Marilyn Manson fans than good luck to 'em, but count me out.

Ben, could you please add Kreator's 2020 live album London Apocalypticon - Live at the Roundhouse.

...which itself was a cover of the original 1965 B-side of Gloria Jones' My Bad Boy's Comin' Home which was a northern soul classic in it's own right back in the day.

Here's my suggestions for Noirvember:

1. Cultus Profano - Towards the Temple of Darkened Fates, Op. 19 from Accursed Possession (2020)

2. Panopticon - Killing the Giants As They Sleep  from Kentucky (2012)

3. Darkthrone -  In the Shadow of the Horns from A Blaze in the Northern Sky (1992)

Onslaught -  Angels of Death  from Power From Hell (1985)

Razor - Hypertension from Violent Restitution (1988)

Megadeth -  Liar from So Far, So Good... So What! (1988)

Sorry Daniel but I'm not massively into tech thrash or speed metal, I've not listened to enough crossover thrash to be any kind of authority and I'm not even sure I know what groove metal is other than Pantera are supposed to be one of the best and I can't do with them, so it's classic thrash all the way for me! Feel free to ignore any or all suggestions if quotas are full.

We've had nothing from Reverend Bizarre yet, so how about The Devil Rides Out from II: Crush the Insects?

Hi Ben, could you add German drone/doom duo Father Sky Mother Earth please?

Ben, please add Enslaved's new album, Utgard. North / Infinite clans.

Thoughts (Part Two):

12. Acid Bath – “Dr. Seuss Is Dead”

Another sludge band I can usually take or leave. I'll take this one - I especially like the thrashy tempo change. 7/10

13. 16 – “Candy In Spanish”

Angry-sounding sludge as a father hopes for a better life for his young daughter than the one he's had to endure himself. So actually quite a positive message, albeit tinged with regret and some bitterness, despite the aggressive tone of the track. 8/10

14. Tristania – “Beyond The Veil”

Sorry, but I truly cannot stand this symphonic shit, just sounds like Disney-metal to me. 2/10

15. The Ruins Of Beverast – “Surtur Barbaar Maritime”

Oh man, did I need this after that Tristania track! Proper doom metal that doesn't make me think of anthropomorphised, animated rodents! Blackened doom with an almost ritualistic slant. Superb stuff. 10/10

16. Colosseum – “Towards The Infinite”

I know I'm biased and this was one of my choices, but this shit is what I live for. What a sublime downer of an ending to the playlist. 10/10

All in all an enjoyable playlist - a couple of bands I will be exploring further, a couple of surprises, only one dud and some stone-cold classy tunes.

Thoughts (Part One):

01. Neurosis – “No River To Take Me Home”

I've mainly avoided Neurosis a lot after listening to Times of Grace many moons ago and being unimpressed. This, however, is fantastic and I must revisit the band if this is indicative of the quality they usually put out. 9/10

02. Pagan Altar – “Judgement Of The Dead”

Blatant Sabbath worship - and nothing wrong with that. 7/10

03. Black Flag – “Nothing Left Inside”

Better known as a hardcore band, they actually played many shows with The Obsessed opening for them and you can definitely hear Wino's influence on the guitar sound here. The genesis of the bastard child of doom and hardcore punk known as sludge metal. 8/10 (influence-wise 10/10).

04. Acid King – “2 Wheel Nation”

Lori S, frontwoman of Acid King is a seriously no-bullshit person and this is a great, catchy slice of stoner metal hailing the biker lifestyle she embraces. 8/10

05. Elder – “Dead Roots Stirring”

With each consecutive release Elder move further away from their metal roots and further into heavy psych / progressive rock territory, but on this 12 minute centrepiece of their second album, Dead Roots Stirring, despite touching on both of those genres, this still retains enough stoner metal content to justify it's inclusion on a MA playlist. 8/10

06. Stillborn – “I, The Stillborn”

Gothic metal that's kind of OK, but still not really what floats my boat I'm afraid 6/10

07. Type O Negative – “Creepy Green Light”

Holy shit! A T-O-N track that doesn't set my teeth on edge! The best I've heard from them yet (by a f***ing long way). 8/10

08. The Angelic Process – “Dying in A Minor”

Again, not a band I'm familiar with. This begins as seriously low-energy stuff, bordering on catatonic at times, before erupting into a majestic roar. I've got a feeling that this may be a band I will become quite fond of. 8/10

09. M.S.W. – “Humanity” (from “Obliviosus”, 2020)

Another of my own submissions and an emotional, vulnerable and at the same time crushingly heavy and angry track dealing with the horrors of drug addiction from my album of the year to date.  10/10

10. Solitude Aeturnus – “Scent Of Death”

Suitably bombastic epic doom from the Texan doomster's last album. I haven't actually heard this album before, but this track is great, so I will be checking it out. 8/10

11. Thou – “Grissecon”

For me, Thou can be a bit hit and miss, but this I like. Bayou-sludge thick guitars, plodding tempos and desperate-sounding vocals all add up to a slab of southern sludge that feels like drowning in a swamp. 8/10

I'll come back to the remainder of the playlist later...

Definitely a classic example.

Absolutely - I can't believe I forgot that one!

Can definitely hear what you mean about the Rush sound - that bass is just so Geddy Lee! As a massive (early) Rush fan, I gotta say I like it. I've not listened to Carnivore prior to this, so I'll check out their albums as part of my current endeavour to fill in any holes in my 80s/90s thrash experience!

Darkthrone - Panzerfaust  (1995)

Despite the strong Celtic Frost vibe to this I still find it a howling piece of BM that never ceases to entertain.  At least they were honest about wanting to focus on CF on this and the job they do is respectful and not just a gratuitous regurgitation of that band.  One of my favoured Darkthrone releases.

5/5

Hear, hear! Darkthrone are probably my favourite BM outfit and Panzerfaust my second favourite album of their's after A Blaze in the Northern Sky. It's massively underrated.

As I've referenced elsewhere, I am not a big fan of Overkill and the debut is unlikely to change the view of anyone of like mind. I think it's a poorly produced and uncommitted record, as if the band are caught between Iron Maiden / Mercyful Fate style classic metal and thrash metal and were hedging their bets. Some parts of this sound like demos for Maiden's Powerslave  album, yet they prove that when they put their mind to it they can thrash for sure - listen to Hammerhead for proof! To address Saxy's point, I can only express what I see from a euro-centric point of view, so I don't have any insight to how the band were perceived in the US. In those pre-internet days word of mouth was key to a band's exposure and standing and in Europe at least I would say that Overkill were a little late to the party, perhaps not getting the label support they needed. Let's face it, to really put this album in context it was released in the same year as Hell Awaits, To Mega Therion, Spreading the Disease, Endless Pain, Seven Churches and Bonded by Blood against all of which I think most thrash fans would agree it pales by comparison. I even think minor albums like Onslaught's Power From Hell, Sacrilege's Behind the Realms of Madness and Razor's Evil Invaders piss all over it, to be honest. At a time when music wasn't cheap - certainly not in England anyway - fans had to be more discerning in what they bought and I just don't think Overkill cut it, especially with this album and as Saxy says, you only get one chance to make a first impression.

Just discovered this drone/funeral doom outfit and their 2018 album, of which this track is the major proportion.

Funeral doom perfection:

Sorry, Ben could you please add short-lived Norwegian death doom outfit Black Lodge.

I'd be happy to. I bought their album when it came out and have a soft spot for it.

Yeah, it's kind of a unique album that whilst primarily being death doom is something so much more too. I think it's a record that really deserves much more widespread acclaim.

One of the great stoner metal albums is 25 years old today - Cathedral's Carnival Bizarre, along with it's brilliant single Hopkins (The Witchfinder General):

Sorry, Ben could you please add short-lived Norwegian death doom outfit Black Lodge.

I've not listened to these guys before and I'm a little disappointed to be honest. Seems like they are trying to sound like New Dark Age era Solstice, but don't have the songs.

Ordinary.

Really solid traditional doom metal from one of the great under-rated female-fronted doom bands.

This is the album that fulfills all the hysterical paranoia of late twentieth century parent's fears of drugs influencing their offspring's minds and causing them to turn to more drugs, sex, satanism, even more drugs and insanity - Reefer Madness brought to life. I'm sure it gives Jus Osborne a warm feeling inside to think what a record like this must do to the sensibilities of the so-called moral arbiters of the world as he feeds on their hypocritical outrage like some kind of mental vampire.
Musically it takes the original template for stoner doom laid down by Sleep, slows it down, makes it exponentially heavier and lyrically more outrageous to produce the standard against which other stoner doom albums are measured. Funeralopolis, Weird Tales, Dopethrone and I, The Witchfinder are the very epitome of what stoner metal is all about. It's been a long, long time since I last got stoned, but all I have to do is put on a pair of headphones, turn out the lights and crank this up to take me back there again.

Just taken delivery of my vinyl copy of this superb album. The opening track is breathtaking:

Too late for October I know, but for future reference I would like to suggest Solitary White Ship from The Drowning's 2008 album This Bleak Descent along with The Bastard Wind from the amazing collaboration album between Bell Witch and Aerial Ruin, The Stygian Bough Volume I.

Ben, could you also add The Crooked Whispers (US) please?

Ben, could you please add the following when you get chance:

Abske Fides (Brazil)

Amaranthine Trampler (UK)

Arcana Coelestia (Italy)

Ennui (Tbilisi, Georgia)

Funeral Moth (Japan)

Funeris (Argentina)

The Funeral Orchestra (Sweden)

Illimitable Dolor (Australia)

Murkrat (Australia)

Noctu (Italy)

Ben, please add French gothic doom duo Lethian Dreams, Finnish funeral doom band Towards and US traditional doom band Cruthu.

Another album out September 18th is a very different proposition from Finntroll. The UK's Infernal Sea has a primal, savage album of UKBM entitled Negotium Crucis out that same day. Video for the title track:

The humppaa-influenced, folk metal trolls Finntroll had their new album out September 18th and it is a lot of fun. One of the few black metal albums you can imagine people dancing to!

In light of the new rules I will replace Esoteric's Descent with Rotting in Dereliction which is also from A Pyrrhic Existence.

Also we don't seem to have stoner metal covered so would like to suggest Acid King's 2 Wheel Nation from III.

I guess we're coming from differing viewpoints on this one, Daniel. It never even crossed my mind that Funeral Doom was considered a niche sub-genre within The Fallen as, to me, it is probably the purest expression of Doom Metal. I suppose I must accept that the more palatable sub-genres like Gothic Metal will dominate the clan and adjust my view of what that means accordingly. And yes, there are definitely plenty of quality Funeral Doom tracks under twenty minutes in length. 

Secondly, are we also assuming that most people are put off by long track lengths or are they equally as likely to have their mind blown by them? I never really hear classical music fans complaining that Beethoven's symphonies are "OK, but a bit too long". Bell Witch's Mirror Reaper made an impressive degree of crossover into more mainstream acceptance and that's over eighty minutes long.

Lastly, I never considered that anyone would think I was trying to dominate the playlist by suggesting a lengthy track or two and if that is the case I apologise, that was never my intention. Anything I have suggested, as with yourself and the Pig Destroyer track, is because I think it is awesome and believe others would be stoked to hear it too. As I said earlier, I don't listen to the playlists to hear stuff I'm already familiar with - I can listen to that any time - I want to hear something unfamiliar that lights my fire such as the Pelican and Cult of Luna tracks on August and September's playlists and my suggestions are based on that desire for others and nothing more.

The latest single from Pallbearer's upcoming Forgotten Days album:

Daniel, whilst I understand why you have implemented a twenty minute rule for track durations, I feel that you are arbitrarily limiting the playlist, especially in a clan like the Fallen where I believe most adherents have to have a more patient approach to their listening due to the very nature of the music they favour. Surely it would be better to judge a track's impact on a case by case basis without applying pre-determined restrictions. Isn't extreme metal about defying accepting norms, not being restricted by them? Is a nineteen minute track really more acceptable than a 23 minute track if the longer is better? Funeral Doom and Drone especially rely on lengthy compositions to create an atmosphere and would be least well-served by the rule. Of course you couldn't include something like Mirror Reaper, but surely common sense has to be assumed. 

That Pig Destroyer track was always going to be controversial as I think you knew when you included it in the playlist, but by adding it at the end of the list anyone could say, I've heard enough and just end the session. I know I made a negative comment about it, but that was unrelated to it's length, unfortunately it was just too experimental for my taste, but I don't regret listening to it. I am much more interested in hearing tracks I'm not already familiar with on the playlist and would prefer to find one thirty minute killer than half a dozen meh tracks. There's no need to include ultra-long tracks every month, but why not occasionally if an individual track merits it? You can't please all the people all the time and not everyone will love every track, but why should they? If the purpose of the playlists is to showcase the clans then why ignore the fact that The Fallen often involves lengthy compositions? Sorry to go on, but as you may guess I am extremely passionate about doom metal and I think it needed saying.

A band new to me is Canadian doomsters The White Swan, who feature alt-metal band Kittie's drummer Mercedes Lander on vocals, guitar, keyboards and drums.

They have  a four-track EP called Nocturnal Transmision released September 18th that is pretty damn good:

Hi Ben, please add Canadian doom band The White Swan.

Three things I have learnt / relearnt from the playlist:

1. I really love black metal.

2. I really dislike folk metal.

3. I actually like Shining a lot more than I thought I did.

There's a couple of well-respected albums on there that I've not checked out yet and I definitely now intend to - Fluisteraas and Oathbreaker.

That Aquilus track was very interesting to. I'm intrigued to listen to the whole album now.

I'm with the consensus on this one. Being a cover artwork junkie I too am enjoying finding covers I may never have come across whilst checking back with the gallery every few days. Great feature to be able to filter covers you haven't rated yet - saves delving through them all again.

Another decent album released Sept 11th - trad doom with a 1970's hard rock swagger from Michigan's Cruthu.

Ben, please add Void Rot's new album Descending Pillars.

Brazilians Jupiterian release their third full-length, Protosapien, Sept 11th on Transcending Obscurity Records.

Crushing death doom / sludge that comes from the abyssal depths.

Void Rot's debut album, Descending Pillars is cavernous and menacing old-school death / doom similar to Atavisma with whom they shared a split earlier in the year.

Released September 11th on Everlasting Spew:

Could you add Ieschure (Ukraine) and Ovnev (US) please Ben.