Sonny's Forum Replies

I actually quite like both of these albums - they are very similar in that they have some great tracks, some filler and a cover version apiece. So let's start with the covers - Megadeth's cover of the Pistols classic is an abomination in every way (Dave can't even get the lyrics right), whereas Anthrax's cover of Trust's Antisocial is better than the original in my view, so first point to Anthrax. Both have quite a weak original track, 502 in Mustaine's case and the single, Make Me Laugh, in Scott Ian's case. I prefer 502 over MML, so point 2 goes to Megadeth and it's 1:1. Both LPs kick off strongly, Be All, End All is a great opener and Out of Sight, Out of Mind is a solid follow-up track, but the instrumental Into the Lungs of Hell is an absolute killer of an opening track and Set the World Afire is also a great track that carries the openers momentum forward. 2:1 to Megadeth. Both first sides also end well, but Mary Jane just pips Who Cares Wins for me so Megadeth go 3:1 up. The side two openers is a walk over for Anthrax - Now It's Dark is the album's best track and 502 isn't. 3:2. The remainder of State of Euphoria is solid and Finale is a great ending. So Far's last three tracks are much better though - Mustaine's cynical vitriol is in full flow. In My Darkest Hour is classic and contrary to other Academy members I fuckin' love Liar - Dave's venom spitting is a treat to behold. Hook In Mouth's tirade against Tipper Gore, Mary Whitehouse and all the other fucking self-righteous assholes who seek to censor what we supposedly free-willed adults listen to is worth the price alone. So that's 4:2 to Megadeth. One interesting point is that all the available modern versions of So Far... (well, the CD version I own and the streaming versions anyway) seem to have a very different mix than the original vinyl version I also own which seems to have toned down the album's bite, so I gotta knock a point off I'm afraid. Still I pronounce Megadeth the winners for me, 3:2.

OK, so I'm gonna go with a top 25:

1. Black Sabbath - Paranoid (1970)

2. Iron Maiden - Killers (1981)

3. Grand Magus - Hammer of the North (2010)

4. Judas Priest - Sad Wings of Destiny (1976)

5. Black Sabbath - Sabbath Bloody Sabbath (1973)

6. Grand Magus - The Hunt (2012)

7. Iced Earth - Days of Purgatory (1997)

8. Black Sabbath - Master of Reality (1971)

9. Motörhead - Bomber (1979)

10. Witchfinder General - Death Penalty (1982)

11. Iron Maiden - Piece of Mind (1983)

12. Angel Witch - Angel Witch (1980)

13. Judas Priest - Stained Class (1978)

14. Black Sabbath - Sabotage (1975)

15. Rainbow - Rising (1976)

16. Grand Magus - Iron Will (2008)

17. Mercyful Fate - Melissa (1983)

18. Iron Maiden - Powerslave (1984)

19. Motörhead - Overkill (1979)

20. Queensrÿche - Operation Mindcrime (1988)

21. Witchfynde - Give 'em Hell (1980)

22. Iced Earth - Night of the Stormrider (1991)

23.Saxon - Wheels of Steel (1980)

24. Iron Maiden - Iron Maiden (1980)

25. Arkham Witch - I Am Providence (2015

I was originally going to propose Hell's 2012 album III but thought it might be a bit much for some, so instead I went with his 2020 album released under his own name (well, initials), the superb and not quite as abrasive, Obliviosus. As Daniel rightly says, I have been raving about this guy for ages, both with this album and his Hell releases. Nobody does bleak and desolate better in my book, but Obliviosus is one of those very few albums that, for me personally, transcends the music and connects on a deeper level in the same way that Warning's Watching From A Distance or Shining's V-Halmstad do.

The album is a very personal album to MSW, hence it's release under his own name, in that it's subject matter concerns his brother RAW's crippling drug addiction and the fraternal love he feels for his sibling, countered by his anger and frustration at the damaging effect his addiction had on the brothers' close family. As MSW says in the opener, O Brother, "I will never forget you, I will never forgive you" and this dichotomy is at the heart of what makes this album tick.

That opener is a real gut-wrencher, the music ebbs and flows and threatens to wash the listener away in a tide of emotion. Female clean vocals and Bell Witch-style strumming are swept away by black metal blasting, angst-ridden harsh singing and Hell's trademark sludge/doom riffs. This is followed by a short piano piece entitled Funus, which is apparently Czech for funeral and refers to a metaphorical funeral rather than an actual one, I feel, as the addict is lost to the family, possibly for ever.

Both the remaining track, Humanity and twenty-minute closer Obliviosus dive deeper into the emotional turmoil of living with an addict in the family, extreme doom and atmospheric sludge metal berate the bringer of this curse and vie with cleaner, emotionally-charged melancholic musings upon life, death and the suffering of death in life.

I really cannot state strongly enough how highly I rate this album. Once I start on a listening trip with it, I find it hard to stop and can find myself playing little else for days at a time, most other music seeming puerile and insignificant in comparison. Maybe that's MSW's genius - perhaps the music itself has become the drug against which he rails.

If I could only ever listen to one album ever again, it would very probably be this one.

SHIT.... I can't believe I forgot to post my suggestions for this month's Pit playlist!

I only managed six of this month's features - time has been real tight lately!

The North: No surprise here. One of my all-time favourites and a resounding 5/5.

The Pit: Again, no surprise. I love early Sodom and Agent Orange along with Persecution Mania are top class teutonic thrashers. Another 5/5.

The Infinite: Sonny fails to slag Infinite release shock! Really enjoyed this, very proggy, not so metally. Concentrates on writing great songs rather than trying to dazzle with technical wizardry. I wish more prog metal sounded like this. 4/5

The Horde: Another one that floated my boat. A modern take on that filthy old-school sound and a winner all the way. 4/5

The Fallen: Not hearing an awful lot of gothic metal here, which is to it's credit. Another very proggy release that sounds in a number of places like neo-prog acts such as Mostly Autumn and Magenta (both of which I like). Classy vocals as nearly everyone seems to comment. 4/5

The  Guardians: I really don't intend to shit on every power metal album I hear and this is far from the worst, but I just can't get into it at all. It just seems so overtly theatrical and a little bit naff. 2.5... no, go on - 3/5

I did borrow Internal Punishment Programs off a guy I worked with just after it came out and hated it, so I really couldn't be arsed revisiting it. Let's say 1.5/5 from memory.

Could you add Eremit's Bearer of Many Names (2021) please Ben.

Hi Ben, please add Darkthrone's latest Eternal Hails (2021).

...and here it is. This is some real necro-sounding shit. Sounds like the corpse of Celtic Frost has been dug up and been made to perform one more time, despite having been rotting in the ground for years. First wave blackened heavy metal meets doom metal done as only Fenriz and Nocturno Oculto can. My oxblood vinyl is on it's way as we speak:

A split album from Heavy Psych Records featuring two bands playing Electric Wizard worshipping occult stoner doom. The first is Mark Greening's Dead Witches and the other is the French outfit Witchthroat Serpent. I think Greening's mob are out-Wizarded on this split, but judge for yourself:

British Steel was the album that  finally broke my love affair with Judas Priest. I had been a Priest fanatic since Sad Wings of Destiny was released and so I had forgiven their godawful Take On the World from the otherwise terrific Killing Machine and their appearance on weekly pop show Top of the Pops - the ultimate sell out in the UK. But Living after Midnight and especially United were a step too far for me, the cringe-worthy video for Breaking the Law didn't help either. With the NWOBHM exploding in full force at this time, Priest from that point on became merely peripheral in my metal world, although the earlier albums have remained some of my go-to classics and no amount of bullshit has ever changed that.

So to get back to this month's playlists. Time has been short this month so I've only listened to the playlists from my three clans, The Fallen, The North and The Pit. So my take on those three:

The Fallen was very much back-loaded for me. Started off well enough with Solitude Aeternus, but Crowbar ain't my thing and Moonspell, KYPCK and Lake of Tears were horrible. Divide & Dissolve and Black Sheep Wall are new to me and both kind of piqued my interest without being earth-shattering. Apostle of Solitude and Esoteric were the best two tracks on the list and I enjoyed the Officium Triste way more than I expected to. So a list of two halves for me. 3.5/5

The Pit was a damn good list and my favourite this month. Another slow starter though. Even though it was my own selection, I'm still not too struck by the Evile track, Lamb of God were as annoying as ever and Exciter have never done it for me, so three duds in the first four tracks. However from Nuclear Assault onwards this was a killer playlist, the only letdown being the Cryptosis track (guess I shouldn't believe the hype). Plenty of quality unfamiliar stuff to check out too - Speedwolf, Inculter, Evoke and Paranorm all require further exploration. 4/5

The North was a fine list also and although I was familiar with quite a few, there were again some less familiar artists that seem worth checking out further - Bal-Sagoth, Arkona and Diabolical Masquerade for example. For me, obviously, the highlight was the WitTR track and it was probably a good idea to put the lists two weakest tracks either side of it. 4/5

...not at all, merely stating a matter of fact. I'm all for the site getting it's promotion, I'm just saying I'm unlikely to be much help in that regard.

I'm sorry but I'm not really going to be able to provide much help with marketing etc. for several reasons, not least being I fucking hate advertising/marketing and one of the reasons I like MA is it's lack thereof. I don't use any social media platforms, I don't have a smartphone, I'm mostly anti-social and have a very small social circle, none of who are into metal. Anyway, I've started a new bands thread for The Fallen, which I hope to update regularly as I do listen to a lot of new music. If anyone can use it to the site's benefit then go for it.

Another band formed in 2018 has grabbed my attention this year. They are Portuguese death doom five-piece Sepulcros. Although the band are very protective of their personal identities - preferring to let the music speak for itself - I believe three of the members make up the death/black metal band Summon.

March saw the release of their debut album Vazio with it's striking Mariusz Lewandowski cover art. I submitted a track from it, Magno Caos, for the June Fallen playlist. The album is filthy-sounding old-school death doom that, at times, verges on funeral doom. From my review: "I always though Portugal was a nice sunny place, but Lisbon's Sepulcros have laid that belief to rest as there must be something very dark lurking there for the band to tap into in order to produce an album this dark-sounding, because what we have here seems to ooze up from unfathomed abyssal depths before exploding to the surface and covering everything with a pall of utter and impenetrably dark bleakness. In other words, ridiculously sublime old-school death doom that often borders on funeral doom, particularly on my favourite track, Magno Caos which should appeal to all Esoteric fans out there."

Though this isn't yet it, I believe that if these guys keep doing what they're doing and honing their craft they could yet produce a modern OS death doom classic album. Anyway give them a listen, I think they're worth your time:

The album's Bandcamp page:

https://sepulcrosdoom.bandcamp.com/album/vazio-atmospheric-death-doom-metal

I've never listened to this album before and in all honesty, I'm not even sure if it is really a release that belongs in The Fallen. Sure there are the occasional nods to gothic and doom metal but this strikes me as far more of a progressive metal album and not exactly what I would look for in a Fallen release. In fact, especially in light of the vocals, I personally think this sounds like a heavier version of neo-prog outfits like Mostly Autumn and Magenta (both of who I am a fan of). That aside though, I really did enjoy this and it is more my idea of progressive metal than the Dream Theater-type technical stuff that seems to prevail within that genre. The vocals are fantastic, the songwriting is intelligent and interesting and the instrumentation and production are great. Despite what may seem apparent from comments I have made in the past, I do genuinely love progressive music, especially 1970's prog rock, and this has far more in common with those albums than, say, My Dying Bride or Tiamat. A resounding 4/5 from me.

Or, how about a New Bands thread where we post new releases from bands who are putting out their first record and might appreciate a bit of exposure? I guess the question is how interested would the site's members be in such a feature? I think it's interesting that most of the overrated/underrated threads (which I guess is a similar theme) seem to garner little traction. 

I think the success of such an endeavour would very much be dependent on where the members live. For people like yourself Daniel who lives in a major city like Sydney it wouldn't be too difficult I imagine. Although my city (Stoke-on-Trent) did birth Lemmy and Slash, both left at a pretty young age and the only other bands of note were the mighty Discharge and NWOBHM band Demon. The city's most famous musical son is Robbie fucking Williams ffs. The actual metal scene here is small to non-existent. The only bands I know anything about are Sludge/Doom outfit Space Witch and goth band Lesbian Bed Death. Maybe a forum thread for promoting local acts would be better suited than as part of the playlist. How about a monthly feature like "Unsung Metal Hero" of the month similar to the feature release where the site showcases an act that has very few ratings/reviews (either here or on other unnamed sites) but deserve more? Doesn't have to be shackled by geography then either. For example, I've put together an unpublished list on RYM for doom albums I've rated 4/5 or better that have less than 100 ratings and it has over 200 entries. Just a thought.

So, finally managed to get some time to sit down with this month's Fallen playlist.

Some very brief thoughts:

01. Solitude Aeturnus – “It Came Upon One Night”
4/5 - Epic. I like these guys - surprised they aren't more popular.

02. Crowbar – “Existence Is Punishment”
3/5 - A little bit too alt. metal for my taste.

03. Sleep – “The Druid”
3.5/5 - OK, but not my favourite from Holy Mountain.

04. Moonspell – “The Hermit Saints”
2/5 - I've never liked Moonspell and this hasn't changed that.

05. Divide & Dissolve – “We Are Really Worried About You”
3.5/5 - OK, my interest is piqued. Will have to check out more.

06. KYPCK – “2017”
1.5/5 - No no no

07. Lake Of Tears – “The End Of This World”
2.5/5 - A gothic metal James Bond movie theme song.

08. Apostle Of Solitude – “Sincerest Misery (1,000 Days)”
5/5 - The best song from one of doom's great underrated bands. This is a fucking monster!

09. My Dying Bride – “It Will Come”
4/5 - Not heard this album - will have to check it out on the strength of this track.

10. Black Sheep Wall – “Ren”
3.5/5 Interesting - bit of a head-fuck. Gonna check out this album for sure.

11. Cult Of Luna – “Leave Me Here”
4/5 - A quality track as almost always from Cult of Luna.

12. Officium Triste – “Roses On My Grave”
4/5 - I actually rather enjoyed this despite it's gothic leanings.

13. Paradise Lost – “Medusa”
3.5/5 - I,ve never been that impressed with Paradise Lost. This is OK - nowt special

14. The Ruins Of Beverast – “Malefica”

4/5 - Great, despite the echoey beginning that was starting to do my head in just before it ended.

15. Sepulcros – “Magno Caos”

4/5 - Desperate and destructive sludge that flows like magma.

16. Esoteric – “Dissident”

5/5 - It's Esoteric. That should be recommendation enough for anyone!

Personally I feel that Metallica's downward spiral all started with the tragic passing of Cliff Burton. He was a bit older than the other members and seemed to be the solid foundation upon which the band was built, acting as a grounding influence on the other members - I believe he was a really laid back dude! Remember that most of Justice... was written before Cliff passed away and The Black Album, which is commonly viewed as the beginning of their downward spiral, was the first to be written without any of Cliff's input. His passing coinciding with a huge upswing in Metallica's popularity found Ulrich and Hetfield becoming a little detached from reality and I think they lost sight of why they started Metallica and became more intent on becoming rock stars - earning gold and platinum records and performing in front of immense, adoring crowds. This alienated a lot of their original fans, a situation that worsened when they took on Napster and made comments in the press apparently denigrating their own fanbase, turning more and more real metal fans against them. Seeing Lars Ulrich on TV proudly telling everybody about how he spent $7million on a Jackson Pollock painting and other bullshit didn't seem to help their standing with what is essentially a working class fanbase either. So basically what started as a bunch of supremely talented and energetic young men had their heads turned by fame and fortune and compromised their art in order to chase the adoration and financial rewards they so craved. Later still they have just become a sad joke - a band so lacking in integrity that most true metalheads would rather just ignore them. Fuck off and go play Glastonbury with Foo Fighters so we can all get on with listening to real metal you fucking sell-outs (sorry, but these guys really upset me thirty years ago).

I had never heard of Charnel Passages before this months feature and on my intitial listen I wasn't particularly impressed but, to be honest, I wasn't really giving it full attention and my mind was, at least partly, elsewhere. Anyway, a couple of weeks later I have decided to return to it and give it another chance and the attention it deserves. So after a proper spin or three I'm feeling much better disposd toward it's gnarly charms. There is far more going on here than I originally suspected, riff after riff ripping through my skull from ear(phone) to ear. It is most definitely a throwback to my particular favourite era of death metal, ie early to mid-nineties and a looser-feeling style of DM that doesn't feel as constipated as much of the output of later decades. Having become a recent convert to the Incantation juggernaut, I can hear the influence of the Americans' nineties output on these British boys' sole full-length and that can surely never be a bad thing. I am not as steeped in the ethos and history of death metal as some Academy members so I'm not really aware of whether the album is overtly derivative and I can take it on it's own merits, which are pretty damn impressive to my ears. This is most definitely reanimated, semi-decayed corpses, foggy graveyard-style death metal of a type I really enjoy, so I am giving this month's Horde feature a most heartfelt thumbs up.

4/5

Just a question though, can anybody else hear the similarity between the early riff in Piety Carved From Flesh and Cathedral's North Berwick Witch Trials from The Garden of Unearthly Delights?

It's been almost a year, so here's my updated (and expanded) list - still limited to one album per band:

1. Warning - Watching from a Distance (2006)

2. Slayer - Reign in Blood (1986)

3. Winter - Into Darkness (1990)

4. Solstice - New Dark Age (1998)

5. Celtic Frost - To Mega Therion (1985)

6. Darkthrone - A Blaze in the Northern Sky (1992)

7. Enslaved - Vikingligr veldi (1994)

8. Metallica - Master of Puppets (1986)

9. Opeth - Still Life (1999)

10. Esoteric - A Pyrrhic Existence (2019)

11. Emperor - In the Nightside Eclipse (1994)

12. SubRosa - More Constant Than the Gods (2013)

13. Autopsy - Mental Funeral (1991)

14. Oranssi Pazuzu - Värähtelijä (2016)

15. Shining - V - Halmstad (Niklas Angående Niklas) (2007)

16. Hell - III (2012)

17. Venenum - Trance of Death (2017)

18. Wolves in the Throne Room - Two Hunters (2007)

19. Iron Maiden - Killers (1981)

20. Incantation - Diabolical Conquest (1998)

21. Evoken - Quietus (2001)

22. Kreator - Coma of Souls (1990)

23. Terrorizer - World Downfall (1989)

24. Grand Magus - The Hunt (2012)

25. Cianide - A Descent Into Hell (1994)

26. S.O.A.D. - Toxicity (2001)

27. Panopticon - Kentucky (2012)

28. Black Sabbath - Sabbath Bloody Sabbath (1973)

29. Ruins of Beverast - Rain Upon the Impure (2006)

30. Ahab - The Call of the Wretched Sea (2006)

Well, I guess it's time for an update on my list:

1970: Black Sabbath - Paranoid

1971: Black Sabbath - Master of Reality

1972: Deep Purple - Machine Head

1973: Black Sabbath - Sabbath Bloody Sabbath

1974: Budgie - In for the Kill

1975: Black Sabbath - Sabotage

1976: Judas Priest - Sad Wings of Destiny

1977: Motörhead - Motörhead

1978: Judas Priest - Stained Class

1979: Motörhead - Bomber

1980: Angel Witch - Angel Witch

1981: Iron Maiden - Killers

1982: Witchfinder General - Death Penalty

1983: Iron Maiden - Piece of Mind

1984: Metallica - Ride the Lightning

1985: Celtic Frost - To Mega Therion

1986: Slayer - Reign in Blood

1987: Candlemass - Nightfall

1988: Saint Vitus - Mournful Cries

1989: Terrorizer - World Downfall

1990: Winter - Into Darkness

1991: Autopsy - Mental Funeral

1992: Darkthrone: A Blaze in the Northern Sky

1993: Rippikoulu - Musta seremonia

1994: Emperor - In the Nightside Eclipse

1995: Ulver - Bergtatt: Et eeventyr i 5 capitler

1996: Scald - Will of the Gods Is Great Power

1997: Iced Earth - Days of Purgatory

1998: Solstice - New Dark Age

1999: Opeth - Still Life

2000: Immortal - Damned in Black

2001: Evoken - Quietus

2002: Reverend Bizarre - In the Rectory of the Bizarre Reverend

2003: Monolithe - Monolithe I

2004: Nehëmah - Requiem Tenebrae

2005: Tyranny - Tides of Awakening

2006: Warning - Watching From a Distance

2007: WitTR - Two Hunters

2008: Winterfylleth - The Ghost of Heritage

2009: Blut Aus Nord - Memoria Vetusta II: Dialogue With the Stars

2010: Grand Magus - Hammer of the North

2011: Disma - Towards the Megalith

2012: Panopticon - Kentucky

2013: Subrosa - More Constant Than the Gods

2014: Saor - Aura

2015: Kauan - Sorni Nai

2016: Oranssi Pazuzu - Värähtelijä

2017: Venenum - Trance of Death

2018: Yith - Immemorial

2019: Esoteric - A Pyrrhic Existence

2020: MSW - Obliviosus

I know it seems like a lot of changes, but I am a notoriously unreliable narrator!

Actually, I've just had a look at the Wayfarer cover on fullscreen and it's much better than I thought it was.

What even is that thing lying on the ground, some kind of man-dog hybrid? Or is it a monkey? Fucked if I know.

Awww... now I'm disappointed!! I was hoping to do an Open University course on the aesthetics of Funeral Doom.

Xephyr, did you really do a college thesis on Blackwater Park? That's awesome! Academia sure must have changed from when I was at school. Makes me very self-conscious about my reviewing "style" now.

The clan challenges are indeed a hefty undertaking. I have been chipping away at The North: Black Metal The Modern Age for some time now and only have about three or four left to review. Of the three challenges I've undertaken so far this has been my favourite because I've discovered some really excellent albums I'd never heard previously and, perversely, I've even enjoyed the process of reviewing the ones I didn't especially love. I think the fact I've taken my time with it rather than charging at it like a bull at a gate has made it more enjoyable. In fact, I may even take on an extra  challenge or two just for the hell of it. Maybe I'll be ultra-perverse and do a Gothic Metal or Metalcore challenge (or maybe not).

Another prolific releaser of material is Belgian black metaller and doomster Déhà who has released 19 albums and 6 eps since 2018 under his own name as well as other stuff in projects like Slow, Imber Luminis, Clouds, Yhdarl and Aurora Borealis, to name but five! I haven't listened to them all, but he has released some good stuff, particularly as funeral doom project Slow, black/doom project Imber Luminis and his four album A fleur de peau series under his own name. Highest number of ratings on RYM - 58. Respect to these guys who do it for love not money.

I've not looked into it in any depth, but would guess this is a relatively recent phenomenon. With the availability of home recording software and internet distribution, such as Bandcamp, it is possible for anyone with the knowledge and skill to issue albums virtually at will. I have seen more than enough evidence of this in the black metal community where some acts treat Bandcamp like some kind of Twitter feed, spewing out their every musical thought no matter the quality.

A band I actually quite enjoy who have released 23 albums in fifteen years, with the highest number of ratings on RYM being 16, is a fellow countryman of yours Ben, who goes by the unfortunate name of The Horn. His weird black metal is all based around the Egyptian Book of the Dead and his is certainly an original voice. What keeps him going is sheer enthusiasm, I'm guessing because he can't make much money from it, although I have bought a CD or two!

Blackened Doom Metal seems to have entered a bit of a purple patch just lately.

Old Forest's latest album, Mournfall, is another great example of the style.

Heavy and imperious metal with an inherent sorrowfullness:

GM were definitely doom metal on their first couple of releases, but moved away from doom to a trad metal sound certainly by the time of 2008's Iron Will album.

The Flight of Sleipnir's latest, Eventide, is a great example of blackened doom metal and this is the best track on it:

As far as the Epic Doom Metal tag goes, I liken it's relationship to Traditional Doom Metal similar to Power Metal's relationship to Traditional Heavy Metal. Maybe a better genre tag would be Power Doom?

"Epicus Doomicus Metallicus" was actually my introduction to doom metal back in the late 1980's. I couldn't get into it initially (which was likely because due to the vocal style & my obsessive taste for extreme metal) however it majorly grew on me over time & I ended up really digging it. I think it was a genuine landmark for the genre because it nailed that doom metal atmosphere better than anyone had done previously. Come to think of it, I'm wearing my old "Epicus Doomicus Metallicus" t-shirt right now actually. Their sophomore album "Nightfall" is my favourite Candlemass record these days but it's not that far in front of this one.

Likewise Daniel, initially I enjoyed the music but struggled with the vocal style, in the same way I did with Cirith Ungol. Also Epicus came out at a time when I was probably most heavily into thrash and the slow and gloomy stuff was on the back  burner for me. Ultimately however, true class will always prevail, hence Candlemass being rightly revered as one of, if not the, prime movers in the development of doom metal (which wasn't even a thing back then).

I found my way into doom via Sabbath's doomier tracks like Into the Void and Black Sabbath, Witchfinder General's Death Penalty and later Saint Vitus and Cathedral. I remember well that Candlemass were very much derided by the music press originally (as were Venom) which just goes to show how much the music writers know! Epicus is still my favourite Candlemass release, but recently I have been playing the self-titled 2005 album a lot as it really does kick all kinds of ass. I notice very few Academicians have rated it, so I strongly suggest checking it out if you haven't already. If you're not hooked after opener Black Dwarf then I guess we can never be friends and I wish you well for the future!

I have to admit that I'm getting a little frustrated at the insinuation that Metal Academy should blindly follow the direction of a competitor that is in no way the authority on metal. We're trying to set a new standard for a metal website here & I have zero concern for what RYM, Metal Archives or anyone else are doing with their subgenres. In fact, long-term I'd like to think that Metal Academy will become the sole point of call for all metalheads seeking new music. I can also tell you that it is our intent to make some changes to the subgenres over time (in fact we're currently looking at a change now & you should see that play out over the next week or so) but those changes will be made purely on the informed opinions of ourselves & our senior clan members. Not what other sites are doing.

I would never seek to try to tell others what their standards should be and I only started this thread to try to stimulate a little debate as genre definitions always seems to be a good subject for member interaction, rightly or wrongly. Mainly it was to draw attention to the anniversary of Candlemass' debut, but RYM's introduction of the Epic Doom genre had stuck in my mind and seemed like a reasonable connection to such a landmark release in the (valid or not) genre. Sorry if my post has trod on any toes and I am not trying to infer that there is any problem with how Metal Academy does things. I have nothing but the utmost respect for the way Daniel & Ben run the site and the time and effort they put into it. Again, apologies if that's how it came across because that was never my intention.

Hi Ben, could you please add Alastor's latest album Onwards and Downwards.

What the hell has stoner metal got to do with southern rock or metal? Why would you move stoner out of the Fallen when one of it's principle offshoots is stoner doom? I assume people have heard of Electric Wizard, Cathedral, Saint Vitus and Sleep. Are we seriously suggesting we move these bands from out of the Fallen? I'm afraid you've lost me here. There seems to be a misapprehension developing amongst some that only gothic-tinged doom is real doom metal, severely narrowing the scope of what The Fallen stands for and to which I must retort, as doom metal is far more than whining goths pretending they're living in an Anne Rice novel or a Twilight movie.

A better solution would be to put anything stoner- or psych-related together in a clan, call it The Bong or The Crack House and sign me up!!

Most of you seem to echo my own thoughts that what is being proposed as epic doom metal does not constitute a significant enough departure from standard doom to justify a whole new genre tag. I think epic as more of of a descriptor than a genre, something RYM already had, thus rendering the genre tag even more redundant. I'm certainly not in favour of including it here, I merely brought it up to engender a discussion and to mark an anniversary milestone of one of my favourite albums!

Daniel, if you are enamoured with IE's Alive in Athens I would strongly recommend the double disc set, Days of Purgatory (my particular favourite Iced Earth release). It features re-recorded versions of previous IE tracks with vocalist Matt Barlow who sings on Alive in Athens and it's songs  makes up most of the playlist of AiE.

I'm not as clued up on death metal as some of you guys, but here's my list for what it's worth:

#1 Possessed - Seven Churches
#2 Terrorizer - World Downfall
#3 Autopsy - Severed Survival
#4 Morbid Angel - Altars of Madness
#5 Sempiternal Deathreign - The Spooky Gloom
#6 Poison - Into the Abyss
#7 Bolt Thrower - In Battle There Is No Law!
#8 Pestilence - Consuming Impulse
#9 Death - Leprosy
#10 Vulcano - Bloody Vengeance

Early death metal is much more up my street than the later, more defined and brutal sound. I know the Poison album was originally a demo, but it sounds fine all the same and I love it.

I've never heard the Incubus album from Ben's list or the Macabre album from Vinny's so I must check them out.

Glad to hear Sojourner are back on form. Like you, Xephyr, I was decidedly underwhelmed by Premonitions, despite being a fan of their first two albums. I'll try to give it a spin later.

The best track from Cirith Ungol's new Half Past Human EP is the epic title track that closes the release:

Cirith Ungol have released a four-track EP of re-recorded old tracks that have never really seen a proper release.
This isn't a shoddy cash-in however, but is a really solid release, although it won't change your view of the band either way.

Epic heavy metal from time-served veteran metal craftsmen:

Just got my CD copy a couple of days ago. Love this album, Vinny and thanks for putting me onto it. But have you seen the large number of snarky comments on it's RYM page? I fucking swear, I don't know what some people expect from an album sometimes. Can't they just accept it as a good/great black metal album that doesn't threaten to change the face of black metal but is just a damn entertaining listen? Or does one person state a dislike for it and then others feel compelled to jump on the bandwagon? That's one of my main beefs with RYM I guess, the pile-on bully mode that sometimes takes the place of considered thought. Luckily that's not an issue here at the Academy and another reason I prefer to engage in civilised discussions here - I virtually never post on RYM forums, but as you can tell it's hard to shut me up on the MA ones!

Suggestions for July's playlist:

Panopticon - The Embers at Dawn (12:40) from ...And Again Into the Light (2021)
Kanonenfieber - Grabenlieder (5:25) from Menschenmühle (2021)
Emperor - Ye Entrancemperium (5:14) from Anthems to the Welkin at Dusk (1997)
Total runtime: 23:19

Another great playlist this month,  although for me, it got off to a slow start. My own selection of the Evile track was just one I put out there because I had been listening to the new album and that was the best of a so-so bunch. Lamb of God was the worst track, the vocals are like fingernails down a blackboard to my ears and I've never had any time for the band at all. Great to hear Anthrax's blatant Saxon worship on Metal Thrashing Mad but Exciter have never got me that er... excited! Finally when we get to Nuclear Assault we get into top gear and it's pretty much all gravy from hereon in - Slayer with one of the best metal intros ever, The Exploited sticking it to Thatcher once more and general all-round thrash metal kick-assery. The only real disappointed after track 4 was the Cryptosis track. I'd heard everyone raving about what a great album Bionic Swarm is, but Game of Souls didn't really do it for me. Still, a few new discoveries I'm looking forward to delving into, such as Speedwolf's Motorhead-loving speed metal, Inculter, Evoke and Paranorm. Well done us!!

Suggestions for July:

Olde - The Dead Hand (5:10) from Pilgrimage (2021)
Leechfeast - Cold Flow (15:01) from Village Creep EP (2019)
Rifflord - Transcendental Medication (3:46) from 7 Cremation Ground / Meditation (2018)
Total runtime: 23:57

I have to shamefacedly confess to never having listened to Mütiilation. Now I guess I'll have to just to discover if they are overrated or not!!