Sonny's Forum Replies

 I'm also wondering if we're gonna see the playlists being dominated by the same bands/subgenres/eras or with too high a ratio of classics but that could occur with the increased track limit in some of the other clans anyway. I don't see that we can get around that as I have no intention of telling people what to submit. It needs to be more organic than that. One thing I will say though is that I hope people try to make their submissions a genuine reflection of their listening habits from the previous month (wherever possible) rather than simply picking old favourites. I really like the idea of each month's playlist being a snap shot of the clan's movements at that particular point in time.

While the number of participants is low, then there probably is a chance that some subgenres may be left out. If the desire is genuinely for the clan members to base their submissions on their previous month's listening habits, this is very likely. In The Fallen, for example, I don't believe there are any active contributors who listen to massive amounts of drone metal on a regular basis, so there may only be infrequent submissions from the genre. The only real alternative I can see is to leave a block of time for tracks to be shoehorned in from any subgenres that may have been under-represented, but then this would no longer make the playlist a snapshot of the clan's current listening habits. It's a tricky balancing act for sure.

My suggestions for April's The North playlist are:

Forhist - II from Forhist (2021)

Darkthrone - Skald av Satans sol from Transilvanian Hunger (1994)

Sainte Marie des Loups - Interdit et oublié from Funerailles de feu (2020)

My suggestions for the April Fallen playlist:

Subrosa - Ghosts of a Dead Empire (11:04) from More Constant Than the Gods (2013)

Spelljammer - Abyssal Trip (10:38) from Abyssal Trip (2021)

Acid Mammoth - Berserker (5:01) from Caravan (2021)

Tar Hag - Elder Cloak (2:59) from Elder Cloak EP (2017)

Total Runtime - 29:42

Yes, well I was wrong. I listened to a few Amaranthe tracks on YouTube and found them to be jaw-droppingly awful. But, that's fine - I somehow don't think a grizzled old cynic like me is their target demographic. As for picking a track from In Waves for next month's playlist, I didn't really think anyone would be interested in listening to a track from the previous month's featured release again so soon. But I pledge that I WILL find a track to suggest sometime during the next week or so.

Yeah I agree. There is always a danger that the playlists may become a "greatest hits" sort of thing, but with the current participating membership I think that to be unlikely.

Great choice Ben. I can see why you rate it with it's old-school vibe and it's occasional slower descent into doom territory (Taken Away by the Torn Black Shroud is brilliant). Gonna have a few more listens before commenting more fully - it definitely deserves it.

Are we only using the time limit for The Fallen's playlist next month?

And yet you've only just listened to the monthly feature release for The Revolution & reported back positively Sonny. That qualifies as having an opinion as far as I can see.

I don't think I've explained myself very well. What I mean is, I have very little experience of metalcore and don't see how I could suggest a track for next month's Revolution playlist with any authority. I have heard bands like Killswitch Engage, Shadows Fall and Dillinger Escape Plan, but I really don't care for them at all. I have the same problem with metalcore as I do with a lot of sludge - the hardcore-influenced vocals. Now I'm well into hardcore punk like Black Flag, Minor Threat and Sick of it All, but I dislike that style of vocal delivery in metal. The reason I enjoyed In Waves so much was because a significant percentage of the vocals were clean sung, enabling me to tolerate the harsh-sung sections more easily. 

Now, the Trance Metal tag interests me much more because I have literally no idea what that is all about, but it sounds intriguing. Could anyone suggest a decent album within that genre that may give me a good idea where to start, then I may possibly find something to suggest there.

Nice one Daniel! I'm looking forward to it already.

Unfortunately, The Revolution is probably the clan I know least about, so will probably have to pass. Oh, well!

Also, while the membership is still quite small, how about allowing one track suggestion to any non-clan Academy member. For example, I'm not a member of The Guardians, but I think I've heard enough heavy metal to come up with a decent suggestion or two. These can always then be subject to omission due to time constraints or unsuitability, submissions from clan members always taking precedence obviously.

Hi Daniel, Instead of the playlist submissions being by number of tracks, have you considered asking clan members to make submissions by time duration? For example, allot each member fifteen or twenty minutes (or whatever) of playlist time and ask for submissions totalling that duration. Just an idea - I could easily make five tracks last an hour or more!!

OK, so I'm vaguely aware that there is such a thing as melodic metalcore but, to be honest, I have never felt any urge to delve into it and I've kept it very much at arms length. Melo-death and all those -core hybrids leave me cold, so if that's your thing then good luck to you but it's not a scene an old geezer like me is able to get excited about - I'll leave it to the kids thanks. Consequently, I went into this not expecting very much at all, playing it at work while I tried to do something useful. But, you know what? Damn me if this wasn't just too distracting with it's catchy little tunes! I'm listening to it again while I write this (at home, later) and although it hasn't changed my world view or anything, I've got to confess I actually quite enjoyed it. I'm still unlikely to explore metalcore much further but on those occasions when I fancy something of a change I can easily see myself returning to this. File under"pleasantly surprised".

3.5/5

This is not a band I've heard of so looking forward to checking this out at the weekend.

Excellent funeral doom from Daniel Neagoe's (Shape of Despair, Pantheist, Ennui) new band, Mourners:

New album Abyssal Trip is awesome hypnotic doom in the vein of Electric Wizard from Sweden's Spelljammer:

Lake is the second track:

Ben, could you please add Romanian funeral doom band Mourners and Swedish doom outfit Spelljammer.

Hi Ben, please add a couple of Scandinavian Stoner Doom bands - Norway's High Priest of Saturn and Sweden's Hexgrafv.

Great way forward and definitely a good idea to get the active clan members involved, allowing for a bit of development of the clan concept. I'm interested to see where this goes now with additional membership input. May even encourage more peripheral members to become more involved. 

The fantastic closing track and highlight of Cult of Luna's new Raging River EP, Wave After Wave.

Atypical-sounding blackened death metal with a guitar sound appropriated from gothic rock. Interesting.

I've looked back to the beginning of last year at The Fallen feature releases and it's interesting to see that of the fourteen featured albums there have been six that are classed drone/post-metal, five are gothic metal or gothic doom, two stoner doom (one of which has a tendency towards drone) and one progressive sludge. Is this merely down to personal choice or is it a perception that funeral doom, so-called traditional doom, epic doom and non-gothic death doom are just not liable to produce any worthwhile debate or comment? 

Daniel, I noticed you haven't rated this yet.

It's albums like this that make me realise how completely out of touch I am with the average modern metal fan's taste. For me this was fucking torture. It just sounds like a (slightly) heavier version of awful 70s and 80s rock bands like Kansas, Asia and Journey. I got no feeling or emotion from it at all (except maybe a slight gag reflex) - I just picture the band sitting round going "Dude, you are the coolest", "No dude.. you are!' while they circle jerk over their latest 'masterpiece'. I don't actually hear that much metal here anyway and what there is has had it's spine ripped out and left it a limp and flaccid remnant. In all honesty I don't just dislike it - I resent it's very existence and it's intrusion into my life, fucking up a perfectly good Friday afternoon. PoS indeed!

Not a bad record by any means, but for a band who's back catalogue includes Last One On Earth and The Rack I've got to admit to being more than a little disappointed by this fairly rote death metal release which lacks sufficient "bite" for my preference.

My favourite album of January is Tar Hag's Bestial, released on the 2nd, it's hybridisation of crushing doom riffs and psych solos with sludgy, guttural vocals is right up my street:

Absolute killer track from a band new to me, South Carolina's Tar Hag:

1. "No Prayer For The Dying" isn't a bad Iron Maiden record. It just suffers from comparisons with their previous material.

2. I'd take Maiden's 2006 album "A Matter Of Life & Death" over the self-titled, "KIllers" or "Brave New World".

3. "Dance Of Death" is the only bad Bruce Dickinson-fronted Maiden record.

4. "Divine Intervention" is a better record than "Hell Awaits" which is the weakest of Slayer's classic period releases.

5. "Live Undead" is a genuine classic & the best of Slayer's pre-"Reign In Blood" releases.

6. Slayer's "Repentless" isn't a bad record.

1. Agree

2. S/T & Killers absolutely disagree, BNW agree.

3. Any album with a track like Passchendaele on can't be bad in my book. Brave New World is my most disliked Bruce-fronted album.

4. Hmm.. interesting. Think I'll sit on the fence on this one (Hell Awaits is a bit overrated).

5. Live Undead is a great record but I love Show No Mercy and Haunting the Chapel too.

6. I agree. It's better than the three that precede it.

I've got to agree with Vinny. I'm not really that bothered. The endless subdivision of art into smaller and smaller categories frustrates me to be honest. Personally I think the major genres should be sufficient. I know the whole "if you like band X and band Y are classed in the same sub-genre you may like them too" argument for music discovery, but I prefer it the old-school way - find out yourself by listening to more music or talk to other fans.  

Ben / Daniel, if you want to differentiate The Academy from other metal sites, I would like to see gothic doom given it's own genre. Daniel says "The question we often ask ourselves when discussing these topics is "are there metalheads that like this subgenre but not it's primary genre & vice versa?"' I think it is obvious from my comments as a huge fan of doom metal that I am not a lover of gothic metal and it is equally obvious that for someone like Andi the opposite is true. So, by your own measure I would suggest this is a valid suggestion. Would someone who likes the aforementioned gothic-influenced death doom bands necessarily be into conventional death doom like Autopsy, Winter, Sempiternal Deathreign etc? Personally I think not. For me this is far more obviously an issue than the doom/trad doom/epic doom debate (although I am beginning to change my stance on the whole doom/trad doom debate somewhat).

As for NWOBHM, this is absolutely a scene and not a genre. Out of interest, how does Metal Academy view NWOBHM bands that are obviously not metal - Demon spring to mind - would you allow them or not because RYM classes them under a metal sub-genre?

For me, the important thing with sub-genres is to have them utilised correctly - this is something RYM is notoriously bad at and I'm not sure genre voting is the way to address this situation. You may as well not have sub-genres if they are going to be incorrect or misleading.

I would also like to see blackened doom as a sub-genre - rym have allowed all sorts of "blackened" genres but stubbornly refuse to allow blackened doom, which absolutely is a valid genre and is differentiated from both black metal and doom metal in the same way as (true) death doom is from death and doom metal.

It's great to see atmospheric black metal included - this is so obviously a different beast to straight-up black metal that it should almost be a primary.

Could you also add Bloody Panda please Ben.

Ben, could you add US/Belgian one-woman black metal outfit Hulder.

 As it so happens, I'm collecting and reading the SF Masterworks series, having read quite a few Wells, Dick and Vonnegut to date.

I think a lot of fans of metal will be into genre stories (fantasy, horror and fantasy), hence the themes and artwork.

Only just picked up on your reply Ben, so apologies. The SF Masterworks series has got some fantastic titles and is a great place to start with classic science fiction. Richard Matheson's I Am Legend (forget the awful Will Smith movie), Michael Moorcock's Behold the Man, Philip K. Dick's The Man in the High Castle and Roger Zelazney's Lord of Light are some of my favourites in the series. Personally, I think truly great classic sci-fi speaks as much about the human condition as it does space exploration, time travel or exotic technologies.

Likewise, I really started off reading fantasy when I was younger - Tolkien obviously, then moving on to the likes of Stephen Donaldson, Anne McCaffrey and David Eddings. I did get to about volume eight of The Wheel of Time series, but kind of got fed up with it eventually so never completed it. I've never read Game of Thrones but quite enjoyed the TV show, despite the **spoiler alert**  ultimate cop out.

As I've got older, via the likes of Arthur C. Clarke and Isaac Asimov, I've moved more towards science fiction for my genre fix (although I do still enjoy Stephen King, Dean Koontz, Clive Barker and other occasional horrors). Modern writers of sci-fi I particularly enjoy and would recommend include Iain M. Banks' Culture novels, Peter Hamilton and the James S.A. Corey Expanse series - I even enjoy the Amazon Prime TV series of the books which is actually pretty well done and fairly faithful to the source material.

Ben please add Dutch black metallers Funeral Winds, Sweden's Malakhim and Russia's Epitimia.

Ben, please add Miami metallers Midnight Spell.

Hi Ben, please add Dublin doom / heavy metal outfit Dread Sovereign - should probably sit in The Guardians too.

The track Stained Class is one of my Priest favourites, as is Genocide from Sad Wings and while Epitaph is no classic in itself, I fuckin love the way it segues into Island of Domination. 

As an old ex-biker (grebo was the old expression), I hate glam and hair metal and that Eighties arena rock sound so Turbo was never going to rev me up the way the earlier material did.

OK, so allow me to retort...

1. Killing Machine is a good album, but Rocka Rolla is unremarkable. Neither are a patch on Stained Class and Sad Wings.

2. Really?? err... OK. That IS an unpopular opinion (and it IS a shit record).

3. I agree.

4, I disagree. Exciter, Stained Class and Beyond the Realms of Death are all among Priest's best songs.

5. I kinda disagree, although Last Rose of Summer is a bit drippy.

6. This is a true statement. Although it's not as bad as Take on the World or the truly execrable United (in fact British Steel as a whole is their most overrated album).

Unbelievably downtrodden, disconsolate & emotionally engaging English doom metal for fans of 40 Watt Sun, Pallbearer & My Dying Bride.

No album better encapsulates the essence of doom metal than this, in my opinion.

My favourite album of all time right here...

Promo track, Nature is the Devil's Church, for Dread Sovereigns new album released today:

FFO Gates of Slumber, Grand Magus etc.

Not played this album in ages. The title track is still amazing.

Panopticon - Kentucky (2012)

I have grown really fond of this record in recent weeks (think I picked up on it from a track on the North playlist the other month).  It is such a well composed album that deals with a very emotive subject very sensibly in terms of how the folk, bluegrass and black metal elements are deployed to tell the story.  Need to find time to get a review done on this so will hold off rating at this stage.

My favourite Panopticon album and one of my favourite atmo-black records. A metal album dealing with a labour dispute is a rare thing indeed, but then again Austin Lunn is a rare individual in the world of black metal.

Got to admit that this is one of the least bad power metal albums I've heard. There's enough traditional heavy metal here to attract my ears, although I must confess that at times I did find my attention wandering. I won't be returning to it any time soon, but, unusually for power metal, I did get through the whole album in one go. 3/5

SilentScream213, following your comments about lyrics in metal, I think you would really enjoy the lyrical content of M.S.W.'s Obliviosus. They deal with the negative effects on the family of his brother's longtime heroin addiction and are extremely personal and affecting.

As far as the claim that there are no great metal albums from the seventies, I guess this depends when you got into music. It's no surprise that I am an older metal head (shortly due to enter my sixtieth year - Fuck!!!), so I will obviously view records I grew up with differently than someone looking back three or four decades with no temporal context. I had good times with good friends listening to those records (some of whom are no longer with us), hanging out, going to gigs together, partying, so they are bound to resonate  with me more on a personal level. I think one of the great tragedies of the internet age, streaming and personal audio equipment is that lack of a shared experience with other like-minded travellers through life and whilst I concede that there is nothing wrong with listening to music impartially, I am unable to do so - context is everything in my mind and I admire those who can critique music without bias, unfortunately I'm not one of them.

I would, however, be first to admit that seventies' metal has more of a rock component, but I love 70's rock as well - my favourite musical year is 1971 - and I make no apologies for it. If you think you get to death metal, black metal, doom metal or whatever your metal genre of choice is, without those albums, then you are wrong. It's all interconnected - it's evolution, man.

This opinion harkens back to the first two to ever appear in this thread, written by Sonny:

1. Number of the Beast was a serious let down after the immense Killers.

2. Piece of Mind is the best Maiden album with Bruce Dickinson. Seventh Son.. is pretentious shite.

Even though he has enjoyed one of the Bruce Dickinson albums, I can see how immense both of you think of the albums with Paul Di'Anno. Of course, nothing wrong with that, both singers are probably some of the best in metal!

Just to clarify, I really enjoy most of Maiden's albums with Bruce, except Brave New World and SSoaSS - Number of the Beast included. I merely prefer Di'Anno's punkier, more aggressive vocal style and was very disappointed at the time, when he and Maiden parted ways. I just happen to like Piece Of Mind more than the other Bruce albums and really don't get the deification of Seventh Son.. as it doesn't fire me like other Maiden albums.

Lyrics that make me think are good, lyrics that make me feel are best. Any song with lyrics that manage to choke me up is pretty immediately at least a 4.5/5 for me.

That's a great point and one I can wholeheartedly get behind. The lyrics and their heartfelt delivery are probably the main reason Warning's Watching From A Distance is my favourite album - they get me every time.

1. Lyrics matter. Bad lyrics ruin good stuff for me, and they always equate into a rating unless I don't understand the language (even then I will translate if possible). Bad lyrics are no different than bad guitar to me. 

Quoted SilentScream213

Interesting comment and not one you hear bandied around in metal circles much. For me, the vocals matter a huge amount, not so much the lyrics, although really cheesy lyrics make me cringe (the new Briton Rites album, for example, is lyrically awful). I would be genuinely interested to know, what do you look for specifically in lyrical content that would cause a big boost in your rating of an album and conversely what would deserve a docking?

6. Iron Maiden were at their best when Paul Di'Anno was on vocals.

Thanks, Vinny. I refer you to point #1 on my original post.

Let me guess...when you called Death "f***ing average"?

No, that one is merely hyperbole.