Judgement Submissions

The idea behind the Hall of Judgement is to give site members the opportunity to vote on which genre(s) and/or clan(s) a particular release should belong to. If you feel that a release shouldn't be where it currently is, create a new thread here in the Judgement Submissions section. Make sure you're clear about what you think should happen, and provide brief summary as to why. It's your task to convince other site members that your opinion is the correct one.

Once you've stated your case, an admin will either enter the release into the Hall of Judgement or ask for clearer / more information.

Once more I have to agree, Daniel. There are certainly death doom passages, but not really enough to justify a primary - a secondary tag absolutely, but not a primary. I must admit that when I first listened to it, I was surprised that Ben had nominated it for The Fallen as it didn't exactly scratch that Fallen itch for me, very good record that it is, though. I also recognise that my review focusses on the death doom aspect, but given my well-publicised preferences, I guess that isn't much of a surprise to long-time Academy members!

Absolutely, Daniel. I think Cathedral play very little doom metal outside the debut and Endtyme and are much more of a stoner metal band.

I totally agree with you, Daniel. Jar of Kingdom is so experimental that the avant-garde metal tag is a must! Except I still find a lot of progressiveness from the complex structures and twists enough that the progressive metal tag isn't redundant. So while I'm voting YES for this entry, I'll vote NO for your possible later entry of taking out the progressive metal tag.

The 2002 "First Daze Here" compilation of Pentagram's 1970's material only contains a few metal track with the vast majority sitting more in the hard rock space so I'd like to see it removed from The Guardians & retagged as Non-Metal.

https://metal.academy/hall/498

OK, thanks Daniel.

Excellent, thanks Daniel!

I've just passed this one Andi.

I've just passed this one Andi.

I've just passed this one Andi.

I've passed this one Andi as the release now qualifies.

I've given both of the first two Painkiller releases some listening and reviews (with the third album Execution Ground to be done the same soon) as a self-challenge to explore the band's avant-garde weirdness. There is definitely a lot of the bizarre jazzy avant-garde metal going on in both albums. However, I can hear some prominent grindcore in some sections of the mid-length tracks in their debut, enough that I think it should still qualify as grindcore in half of the tracklisting. So I'll vote YES for both Guts of a Virgin and Buried Secrets to be added to The Infinite and avant-garde metal, but for those albums to be removed from The Horde and grindcore, I'll vote NO for the former and YES for the latter.

Looks like Revolver magazine agrees with me on this.

https://www.revolvermag.com/music/10-essential-stoner-metal-albums?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR2NZaHrjYs0gToAMa-hCMW6yYpKzSsm6f2ahU8eUUJf7aRRmp7mZtYUs6o_aem_AabJKZF3NtWviC8EJ3NQBJpuiYk1rNsipiEE6khuyaJRGf7Fpv6kGqG-VjUoA0TGfWtA7-noUCF5WVkSXMVK_mM1#black-sabbath-master-reality

This nomination has now been posted in the Hall of Judgement.

https://metal.academy/hall/495

These two nominations have been posted in the Hall of Judgement.

https://metal.academy/hall/493

https://metal.academy/hall/494

Although 'Clouds' is generally touted as being a doom/death release, I’ve never agreed with that sentiment. As a death metal musician myself, I can tell you that there’s bugger-all genuine death metal on the album. Even the vocals of rhythm guitarist Johan Edlund don’t come close to anything particularly deathly, instead taking the form of an awkward hybrid of clean & growly styles. There’s not much that resembles death metal in the instrumentation either other than some sporadic up-tempo parts that seem to have been haphazardly inserted into the tracklisting at random intervals, a feature that I regard as the clear weakness of 'Clouds' as an album. On the other hand, the gothic sound that would become a permanent fixture for Tiamat releases moving forwards is already well & truly in effect & may in fact be the most prominent attribute of the album so I'd like to see 'Clouds' added to the Gothic Metal genre on top of its existing Doom Metal one. That would leave it sitting as a Gothic Doom Metal release which I feel is a much more appropriate representation of its overall sound.

This nomination has now been posted in the Hall of Judgement.

https://metal.academy/hall/491

The 1992 sophomore album from unusual New York side project PainKiller is generally tagged as a combination of free jazz & grindcore but I would question that position. The jazz component is most certainly bizarre enough to warrant an avant-garde jazz association while the grindcore component is actually quite small given just how short those tracks are. The wider contribution would sit much more comfortably under an avant-garde metal tag as there simply isn't anything around that sounds remotely like this artist. For that reason, I'd like to see 'Buried Secrets' added to The Infinite under the Avant-Garde Metal genre. If this is successful then I'll be looking to have the album removed from The Horde & the Grindcore genre.

This nomination has been posted in the Hall of Judgement.

https://metal.academy/hall/490

To be honest, when I hear the vocals and breakdowns in this album, I find them more moshing than slamming and think more of Deformity and Despised Icon (Consumed by Your Poison era) rather than Suffocation, maybe even the stylistic missing link between Living Sacrifice albums Inhabit and Reborn. Plus I don't have the heart to dethrone the honor of its status as the earliest notable deathcore album. For these reasons, I'm voting NO for this entry, Daniel.

"Exhorder's underrated sophomore album 'The Law' is often overlooked due to its links to groove metal but I have to say that those statements are heavily overstated. There's really only one groove metal track included on the album (i.e. closer '(Cadence) Of The Dirge') with most of the remainder being far too fast, thrashy & aggressive to warrant a groove metal tag. I honestly feel that a lot of these links are reached for due to the fact that Pantera clearly drew their sound from Exhorder & you can easily hear that here with the vocals sounding exactly like Phil Anselmo, the guitar tone sharing certain characteristics & the groovier riffs taking on a similarly angular format. But the thrash metal model should allow for the inclusion of some groovier riffs without having to receive additional genre tagging in my opinion & there's simply not enough groove metal here to warrant it as far as I can see."

https://metal.academy/hall/489

These two nominations have been posted in the Hall of Judgement.

https://metal.academy/hall/486

https://metal.academy/hall/487

This nomination has been posted in the Hall of Judgement.

https://metal.academy/hall/485

This nomination has been posted in the Hall of Judgement.

https://metal.academy/hall/484

This nomination has been posted in the Hall of Judgement.

https://metal.academy/hall/483

These two nominations have been posted in the Hall of Judgement.

https://metal.academy/hall/481

https://metal.academy/hall/482

OK, thanks Daniel.

This nomination has been posted in the Hall of Judgement.

https://metal.academy/hall/480

This nomination has been posted in the Hall of Judgement.

https://metal.academy/hall/477

This nomination has been posted in the Hall of Judgement.

https://metal.academy/hall/476

This nomination has been posted in the Hall of Judgement.

https://metal.academy/hall/475

This nomination has been posted in the Hall of Judgement.

https://metal.academy/hall/474

This nomination has been posted in the Hall of Judgement.

https://metal.academy/hall/473

I have to admit that I don't see it personally. I'd argue that it's potentially more of a post-hardcore release than it is a metal one with post-hardcore covering the more expansive material.

This nomination has now been posted in the Hall of Judgement.

https://metal.academy/hall/472

OK, thanks Daniel.

This nomination has been posted in the Hall of Judgement.

This nomination has been posted in the Hall of Judgement.

Thanks for submitting your vote on this one Sonny. It's seen us meet a reasonably strong consensus at YES 5 NO 0 so I'm going to pass this nomination. The release has been adjusted accordingly.

0 votes for no.  Now I know for certain: everyone here has taste when it comes to death.

I hadn't listened to this before today, but it has been on my "to do" list for a while, so I thought I would kill two birds with one stone. There are thrash and groove elements present for sure, but I don't think they are pervasive enough to appeal especially to Pit members who aren't also into industrial metal. So that's a "yes" from me.

Gave this a couple of blasts this morning and a) this is an album I haven't paid nearly enough attention to over the years and b) it contains hardly any thrash apart from the odd Slayeresque solo. I would say it owes it's existence more to Discharge than Slayer. Voted "Yes".

I don't recall ever thinking that "Weighing Souls With Sand" felt doomy to be honest Sonny. I always felt that it fit the description for post-metal & that it didn't belong in The Fallen which was the reason for my Hall of Judgement entry. The doomgaze subgenre seems like another pointless RYM sub-division to me. 

I don't know exactly what it is about this record, but I still think it more likely to gain fans in The Fallen than The Infinite. A fair bit of it sounds in the same ballpark as Nadja and Jesu to me, even though it isn't drone metal. Maybe it's the heavy distortion and cavern-like sound that does it, I'm not sure.

I've just given this album some listening and a review because I felt up to checking out one of the most experimental releases in metal. Here we have an avant-garde metal exploration through noise, funk, thrash, and circus music. I agree that there's barely any pure funk here, and I shall give your Hall entry a YES vote.

For the record, I don't consider any of those band's classic releases to be technical death metal. They're all progressive death metal records in my opinion. The incorrect use of the tech death & tech thrash tags has long been a source of annoyance for me & is one that I'd like to clear up in the Academy database at some point but have had to simply accept until such time as we have an avenue to make the required changes.

This nomination has been posted as two entries in the Hall of Judgement.

https://metal.academy/hall/467

https://metal.academy/hall/468

These two nominations have been posted in the Hall of Judgement:

https://metal.academy/hall/464

https://metal.academy/hall/465

This nomination has been posted in the Hall of Judgement.

https://metal.academy/hall/463

This nomination has been posted in the Hall of Judgement.

https://metal.academy/hall/462

I've just given this album some listening and a review to expand my progressive death metal knowledge, and there is certainly a lot of progressiveness. I also find some technicality within the shredding and soloing that explore flamenco/neoclassical-style territory. It's almost like a more brutal Persefone on steroids! So this Hall entry shall be granted a YES vote from me.

There's very little doubt that Kostnatění's very solid sophomore album is a black metal release however I would argue that there's enough of a focus on presenting the genre in the most unusual fashion possible that it should qualify as Avant-Garde Metal too. The Deathspell Omega influence is obvious throughout & I can see a decent chunk of your more traditional black metal audience simply not being up to the dissonance & experimentation on offer here. For that reason, I'd like to see 'Úpal' added to The Infinite under the Avant-Garde Metal genre on top of its existing position in The North.

This nomination has been posted in the Hall of Judgement.

https://metal.academy/hall/459

Trhä - "Av◊ëlajnt◊ë£ hinnem nihre" E.P. (2023)

This little E.P. sees Trhä presenting the traditional raw black metal model in a truly bizarre format with strange sounding Japanese folk melodies layered over the top for an off-putting & often quite sickly effect. It sounds avant-garde as fuck to me personally so I feel that it should rightly sit in The Infinite under the Avant-Garde Metal tag on top of its Black Metal tagging in The North.

This nomination has been posted in the Hall of Judgement.

https://metal.academy/hall/458

Although Yuyoyuppe's latest release contains a fair chunk of deathcore instrumentation, I really think that linking this Kawaii metal stuff to The Revolution is a stretch as I can't see metalcore fans connecting with it. Instead, I'd suggest that it sits much more comfortably amongst the other hybrid genres under The Gateway so I'd like to see "SICK" being added to that clan under the Alternative Metal genre.

This nomination has been posted in the Hall of Judgement. If this poll is successful then I'll be taking the liberty of conducting another to have "SICK" removed from The Revolution.

https://metal.academy/hall/457