Gator's Forum Replies

Hello Sonny, Ben & Andi, it's a pleasure to meet you.

Zachary, you'll be pleased to hear that I gave The Call of the Wretched Sea a spin and I must say, I dig it quite a bit. Since I'm new to the band (and fairly new to funeral doom in general), it's going to take a fair amount of time & subsequent listens before I fully wrap my head around it. That said, I'm genuinely impressed with how cohesively they managed to execute the theme and the lyrics are top tier. What's more, I can already say that I have two personal highlights: The Sermon (when he goes My song forever shall record that terrible, that joyful hour... - man, shivers down my spine!) & Ahab's Oath (this one is soul-crushingly heavy and i really like the synth parts here). Curious to hear which one is your favorite.

It's one of my all time favorites, and I am glad that you enjoyed it!

Here is my review: https://metal.academy/reviews/34371/6530

No no, I mean I've literally fully developed one, it's not metal-specific or anything I just in general need it to be tested, and I remembered somebody had talked about TTRPG design (you). I was suggesting that if you had a table to try it with you might give it a go.

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Thanks for the warm welcome fellas!

I'm looking through all these fresh threads on the forums. Compiling a list of heavy metal deal breakers? - this is exactly the kind of stuff I'm looking forward to.

Also, Hall of Judgement ? Man I like the idea. And I like the name even more.

did... did you say AHOY? Do you like nautical things?

• I'll never miss an opportunity to see a museum ship, if there is one in town I'm visiting.
• Whenever I travel by ship (which is not often, sadly) I feel nothing but a deep sense of joy and calmness.
  
• My dream vacation: From Europe to the States by sea (perhaps on a cargo vessel since these "hotel cruises" are certainly not my thing); and back the same way after a month or so.
  
• This one might be controversial - i have nothing against pirate metal!
  

One may conclude that I have a soft spot for nautical things  :-)

Good afternoon from Detroit MI. Karl. My name is Zachary, and I joined fairly recently. The site is pretty good but it does have a lot of moving parts, so if you need anything feel free to post questions right here, or DM me. Alternatively, the site is owned and adminstrated by brothers Ben and Daniel. Dan is usually a bit more forward, whilst Ben operates in a lower key behind the scenes. Sonny, Shadow, Rex, and Unhindered are all seasoned users. My wife (Kosie) and my guitarist (Max) are also members. Please enjoy yourself. 

\m/ 

did... did you say AHOY? Do you like nautical things?

Cannibal Corpse - Tomb of the Mutilated (1992)

Whilst listening to Tomb of the Mutilated this morning a revelation hit me. The reason I was so belated getting into death metal was the fact that the very first DM band I encountered was Cannibal Corpse (possibly even this album, I don't remember) and I made the error of believing them to be typical of death metal in general. So what, I hear you say. Well the simple fact is that I find CC to be incredibly boring and so took very little interest in death metal generally after that. The vocals are a dull monotone that exhibit no emotional context and although they are capable of throwing out the odd decent riff, they seem incapable of sustaining it for any length of time. Then there is the band's whole extreme gore and horror perspective. Like slasher movies they don't repel or cause me moral outrage, they just bore me because they have no connection to my life or thoughts and so are rendered completely meaningless. I understand that it may just have been a way of baiting the PMRC and the Moral Majority, which, if it is the case, I wholeheartedly endorse, but, I'm sorry, that's just not enough for me. The drumming is good, I'll give them that, but outside the odd riff that briefly hits the spot I can quite happily live out my life never listening to Tomb of the Mutilated again.

2.5/5

You make me sad good Sir, you make me sad. Seriously? "Hammer Smashed Face" riffs do nothing for you? Poor creature! 

With that out the way, I would encourage you to take a second shot at CC with "Eaten Back to Life" it is their debut and in my opinion most catchy album. If "Skull Full of Maggots" doesn't move you then you can dismiss CC.

I need no pity, unless I have to listen to this again!

Love it lol. \m/

Cannibal Corpse - Tomb of the Mutilated (1992)

Whilst listening to Tomb of the Mutilated this morning a revelation hit me. The reason I was so belated getting into death metal was the fact that the very first DM band I encountered was Cannibal Corpse (possibly even this album, I don't remember) and I made the error of believing them to be typical of death metal in general. So what, I hear you say. Well the simple fact is that I find CC to be incredibly boring and so took very little interest in death metal generally after that. The vocals are a dull monotone that exhibit no emotional context and although they are capable of throwing out the odd decent riff, they seem incapable of sustaining it for any length of time. Then there is the band's whole extreme gore and horror perspective. Like slasher movies they don't repel or cause me moral outrage, they just bore me because they have no connection to my life or thoughts and so are rendered completely meaningless. I understand that it may just have been a way of baiting the PMRC and the Moral Majority, which, if it is the case, I wholeheartedly endorse, but, I'm sorry, that's just not enough for me. The drumming is good, I'll give them that, but outside the odd riff that briefly hits the spot I can quite happily live out my life never listening to Tomb of the Mutilated again.

2.5/5

You make me sad good Sir, you make me sad. Seriously? "Hammer Smashed Face" riffs do nothing for you? Poor creature! 

With that out the way, I would encourage you to take a second shot at CC with "Eaten Back to Life" it is their debut and in my opinion most catchy album. If "Skull Full of Maggots" doesn't move you then you can dismiss CC.

My take on it is up. Didn't blow my mind, but was quite solid, above average even. https://metal.academy/reviews/34617/5352

On to Blood Stained Endurance... and pass. I love Catherine but the dude vocals just suck so hard.

So anyway I tracked down Lucid Fear: 

Now the band is better, but Catherine is worse. DAMN.

I'm Blasting In Waves right now. First album of Summer as school's out.

-I need to listen to "In Waves" I think you suggested that to me.

-I am aware of the vocal acrobatics of Will Ramos. I just don't care tremendously for the music that surrounds him. I do respect his talents though.

-I gave sincere consideration to Trail of Tears, because her voice is extremely captivating, but I was sad to see that she hasn't done any other bands. I'd love to see her in something a little more hefty.

I will have to give this a bit of thought, but one thing I do love is lyrics about history - especially WWI or WW2, but shit like Maiden's Alexander the Great is great too (although I do avoid the power metal historical epics).

Oh, and singers with gnarly, grizzled voices like Lemmy or Wino.

The cavernous sound of old-school death metal in the vein of Autopsy. The deeper in the earth it seems to emanate from, the more I love it.

*Bolt Thrower, Weedeater, Cryptopsy. BTW Autopsy bass tone on severed survival is fucking awesome!

Vocals play a massive part in music for me and are probably the thing most likely to get me hitting the off button, so:

1. Shouty hardcore-style vocals where the singer sounds like a three-year old throwing a tantrum in Tesco.

2. Power metal vocals where the singer thinks Bruce Dickinson is OK, but is far too restrained in his delivery.

3. Gothicy vocals where the singer wants you to believe that he really is a romantically melancholy vampire rather than some sad act in a leather trenchcoat. Chances are Andrew Eldritch has already done this ten times better.

4. Overtly technical or avant-garde stuff that exists to illustrate how superior the musician is to us plebs either intellectually or technically.

5. Excessive use of keyboards smeared over the music like too-thick marzipan on a nice cake.

There's probably more, but these are the ones that really twist my melon (man!).

-but if you don't allow shouty bro vocals how will you ever be inspired by Hatebreed (a guilty pleasure for me, I know it's degenerate as fuck but it's great for working out).
-I started laughing my ass off reading the Bruce Dickenson line. Pure gold, and I'm with you on the take. 
-Gothicy vocals where the singer wants you to believe he is a romantic melancholy vampire? I love him, he is me! We turn it on and play VtM:Bloodlines 2. You can send all that shit to my DMs.
-Agree on the Tech for Techs Sake
-Keyboards bad, Violin good. You really just need one Violin. 

Hidden tracks are NEVER a good idea. Thankfully they were related to the length of CDs, so hopefully are gone now.

I rarely ever enjoy cover tracks, unless they match the feel of the rest of the album. On that note, I dislike tracks that have a really different production to the rest of the album too.

Plus Daniel's right that cowbells have no place in metal.

I must say Zero, your hatred for female vocals or non-metal instrumentals seems very passionate. I really enjoy both of those elements if they're done well.

I like cover tracks if the band did them; things like Trouble doing Tales of Brave Ulysess, or Anthrax's take on Cowboy Song. I absolutely hate that youtube "what if this song that has no business being heavy was heavy? What if this super heavy song was acoustic" bullshit, but a real cover is alright. 
I don't hate female vocals I champion Stacey Savage, Maria Brink, and Angela Gassow all the time. I am also  a fan of Thunder Mother, Jex Toth, and Psychedlic Witchcraft. What I hate is that soft chanty opera soprano stuff. I swear there is a free usage sound bite that these bands put in there because they all do it. I think I have PTSD from growing up with that goddamn Titanic theme song. Seriously, scared me for life it did! 
Yes, I hate non-metal in my metal. Imagine that.

Punky one-two drum beats shit me. So does the use of cow bell, particularly when used in conjunction with groovy stoner metal riffs. Any sort of cheese sees me tapping out too i.e. a lot of European power metal.

So, no Powerwolf for Daniel. I'm with you on the power-cheese, yet I like ManOwaR, go figure.

I can't be the only member of this whole site that has these. What am I talking about? Deal breakers, Bad Omens, and Empending Doom (not the fun kind). The shit that makes you tap out, turn the dial, give ya the ick as the kids say.

LOL. I almost thought you were going to rant about two of my favorite Revolution bands there.

I'm going to start compiling a list. Here's what I got. Keep in mind we all have them, these are just mine. 

1) "Airy" female soprano... she's not in the band, it's a backing track. The same backing track every band that does this shit uses.

2) Track on the METAL album has no METAL elements. This shit pisses me off, I grew up very poor, deep in the country, in the bible belt. Getting Metal was a once a year oppourtunity. You just spent $20 on an album. The album has 9 tracks. One of them is a 3-5minute string and piano piece. BRINGS MY PISS TO A BOIL!

"Im going through changes..." Yeah Ozzy I wish you'd change to some shit I paid to hear. Tony Iommi is in your band. He's a pretty fuckin' good guitar player. Let him play it!

3) Beauty and the Beast Vocals-"Airy" female Soprano's evil twin. He says GRRRRR, she says "Ah--ahh-ah". Zero says fuck this shit.

Based on those three, symphonic metal will definitely never be the metal genre for you, Zach. I used to enjoy symphonic metal a lot 10 years ago, but then I started tapping out in favor of heavier, more modern metal genres. Still I enjoy some bands with symphonic elements. One of those bands is Trail of Tears which also has those 3 pet peeves of yours; female soprano (Helena Iren Michaelsen/Cathrine Paulsen/Ailyn), Beauty and the Beast vocals (when Ronny Thorsen growls alongside the female soprano), and a track with no metal elements (e.g. "Illusion?" from Disclosure in Red, "Countdown to Ruin" from Profoundemonium). The only album from that band that doesn't have any of your pet peeves and I would recommend to you is their fully metal male vocal-only 2005 album Free Fall Into Fear. Everything else from that band, NOT IN YOUR HOUSE.

Anyway, I have a few deal-breaking metal genres to show that my expanding taste in metal has limits:

The majority of black metal - I tend to avoid the Satanic bands of the genre and definitely the neo-Nazi NSBM. Though I've enjoyed some black metal bands before that never relied on Satanism for the most part.

Brutal/slam death metal - I'm not really into the gory violence of those two subgenres and some of the more notable bands of standard death metal. Though I still enjoy subgenres like melodic/symphonic/progressive death metal.

The more brutal deathcore bands - Same issue as brutal/slam death metal. Though just like death metal, I like bands that are more melodic/symphonic/progressive.

Drone/funeral doom - So slow, long, and depressing that it's hard for me to pay attention nor resist speeding up the tempo to 2x.

Grindcore - The total opposite of drone/funeral doom, fast and short, but that's also an issue for me, along with a lot of bands of that genre having highly offensive lyrics and band names (such as A.C.). I definitely say no to subgenres like goregrind/pornogrind. In fact, I've listened to and reviewed a few releases by grindcore bands (F*** the Facts, Gigantic Brain, Bologna Violenta, and PainKiller's debut), and they're a few of the only releases in which I've given each of them a rating of less than two stars. I pretty much had a similar "knock it after trying it" attitude to your half-star reviews when writing this one, Zach (keep in mind that almost every other review I've made that's currently up is much more positive and less rage-filled than this): https://metal.academy/reviews/28695/3144

I'll try them out. Fuck it. Why not? Yeah it's like sonic torture, but I actually like her voice. Her voice is pretty awesome-it's a little lower than what I'm talking about and it has a little bit of rasp on it which I dig, but the music and the male vocals-no thank you Sir. If she sings in a heavier band I would absolutely try that out.

-Black Metal that is all Satan all the time is usually all suck all the time. -AGREED
-I love Slam, it's turn your brain off music, the stupider the better. Bananaslama rules, Max and I want them to come play near us. I also dig Krocophile out of Lansing (go see their album cover for Slamzilla-the Return it's peak!)
-We gonna disagree about melo-death/brutal death. I'm on the opposite side of the tracks there.
-I don't get Drone, but really good funeral doom is just awesome, cathartic even.
-Grincore. I like it either in the completely fuck off variety (Anal Cunt), or the serious as a car crash variety (Brutal Truth). Brutal Truth-Extreme Conditions Demand Extreme Responses is a must listen. Spin that. That Fuck the Facts stuff was awful your review of it is accurate as fuck.

Vocals that you can't understand. Cookie monster vocals. If I can't understand you then I assume you are not proud of what you say and it's not worth me hearing.
Down tuned extended range guitars. It's not the guitars but how these types of bands use them. The tone has become so generic and bland. Every production sounds the same.
Too much X -- IE: To many pinch harmonics, to many bends, to many notes.
Djent - Ther is no redeeming qualities to this genre.
Overly complicated leaps and jumps across the fretboard for the sake of seeming complex.
Thin flat drums / the overuse of cymbals
Dirty piss poor production. 

We've talked about this, and you knwo where I stand on all of it lol. long story short, mostly agree, but I love Fear Factory. Dino Cazarez can have as many strings and tune as low as he wants. Let him cook!

.. and with all that I think I'm caught up.

You ever heard Masters Hammer- Ritual?

it’s Czech Heavy Metal. One of the jewels in the first decade black metal list (good shit Dan+Ben)

Vocals that you can't understand. Cookie monster vocals. If I can't understand you then I assume you are not proud of what you say and it's not worth me hearing.

How about lyrics in a language you don't speak?

i personally think foreign language stuff is cool, but I do like having an English translation if it’s real good.

i know max super well, I’m not speaking for him, but he’s enjoyed non-English before. I think it has to do with diction. Even if it’s a foreign language he likes to hear clearly where words end and begin. Doesn’t like a guttoral that sounds like one rolling utterance.

Today is an exams day so I’m on hall duty and stuck on my phone. We’re gonna have some fun in here when I get home.

Hidden tracks are NEVER a good idea. Thankfully they were related to the length of CDs, so hopefully are gone now.

I rarely ever enjoy cover tracks, unless they match the feel of the rest of the album. On that note, I dislike tracks that have a really different production to the rest of the album too.

Plus Daniel's right that cowbells have no place in metal.

I must say Zero, your hatred for female vocals or non-metal instrumentals seems very passionate. I really enjoy both of those elements if they're done well.

i like them if they are done well and with conviction. Funeral doom has some of the most beautiful stuff out there with the symphonic. I also don’t hate women, I’m talking about a particular type of backing vocal that sounds like free-ware. 

Welcome to the Academy Max! (I fuckin' love this guy). 

Rehearsal space for pop-rock band,

and now TrencH is official: https://trenchoctopus.bandcamp.com/track/scratch-track-1

Jam Space for Jam Band. 

...and when I'm wrong I'm wrong. I'm also honest. Big Frank says Hard Rock (wifey reached out to him):  Well done Daniel!
*handshake*

Battle jackets look awesome, but all I can afford is band T-shirts.

Go to a thrift store, and get a cheap denim jacket. Then you order the patches seperately and sew them in. Patches are mostly cheap except for rare and tour patches. Authentic Bolt Thrower patches are very expensive and sought after.

It's got a bit of a psychedelic Velvet Underground/Lou Reed meets Americana feel to it. I like it. Well done mate.

Thank you Sir! I very much like Lou Reed, especially the Transformer Album! Glad you enjoyed it. I have more if you ever want it I can hook you up, but we don't sound like this all the time. I want to do this project this summer as TrencH. Just need to get the songs I've written tightened up and find me a metal drummer who doesn't want to play at 400bpm's lol

I got a bunch of T-Shirts too of course. Two closets and two drawers full of em. Rockin Obituary: Slowly we Rot T at the moment. Never owned a Motorcycle, you can only make use of em about 2 months of the year up here, and even then Detroit Drivers and Pot Holes!? Brother, I love my life lol.

That story about your old jacket sounds fuckin awesome though and I'd love to see that shit!

I'm familair with it. I've even weighed in on all the stuff I feel knowledgable enough to vote on. I'll give a lot more to that dynamic when we have 15 regularly activce members. Still, if I have 1st-hand access to an artist, as I do in the case, I will always differ to the artist over any online website, journalistic publication, or popular opinion.

Fair enough. I'm going to side with the artist themselves as the ultimate authority of their own music.

Well, yes there's a couple of metal tracks on the Bang album but I don't think the record as a whole qualifies as metal. It sits much more comfortably under hard rock for mine.

You probably just need to go back and relisten to it a couple of times. Give it time to soak in, also consider the time- 1972. Consider it's contemporaries, outside of Black Sabbath. I saw them live on October 25. 2014 at the Pyramid Scheme in Grand Rapids Michigan. They shared the stage with Radio Moscow and Pentragram. They were damn heavy that night I can tell ya that!

From Bang's Wiki: The group was formed by drummer Tony Diorio, bassist/singer Frank Ferrara, and guitarist Frank Gilcken and released three albums on Capitol Records, scoring one minor hit single with "Questions", which reached number 90 on the Billboard Hot 100.[4] They were strongly influenced by Black Sabbath,[5] and are considered forerunners to the doom metal genre.[6]

And here it is from the horses Mouth 
https://www.bangmusic.com/Story.html
"Back in the spring of 1972, heavy rock trio Bang were shaping up to be the proverbial Next Big Thing. Having signed a few months earlier to Capitol (home, of course, to the Beatles and the Beach Boys), the band’s first single, ‘Questions’, was nestling proudly in the Billboard Hot 100. With the enthusiastic support of their record label, their debut album, Bang, was also climbing the charts. Moreover, they had recently opened for their idols, Black Sabbath, and, by common consensus of opinion, stolen the show. With two band members, guitarist Frankie Gilcken and lead singer/bassist Frank Ferrara, still in their teens, Bang seemed to be unstoppable.

Somehow, though, it didn’t quite work out. Even as ‘Questions’ was charting, changes at Capitol saw the band’s supporters moving on, replaced by A&R men who had their own signings to promote. With the band’s producer also leaving the label, Bang’s support system crumbled. Their new producer engineered a change in personnel that left the band’s drummer and lyricist, Tony Diorio, out in the cold, while Capitol insisted that Bang develop a more mainstream, pop-oriented sound. They changed management companies, only to discover that they were being blackballed, leaving gigs hard to come by. By 1974 - just a couple of years after their initial success - a tired and disillusioned Bang had long since lost their direction, momentum and self-belief, and they went their separate ways."

Their idols were Black Sabbath, and they switched Management over lightening their sound. I'd say that's pretty Metal. Want me to ask Frank how he feels about it?


Here's what they got up to last year: 

The self-titled album from Philadelphia trio Bang was released in February 1972 & opened with this number that sits somewhere between heavy metal & hard rock:

Bang! is metal enough to open for Pentagram and  hold there ground. Frank Ferrara (Bass and vocals) is the salt of the earth and will talk to you on facebook if you reach out to him. All in on Metal here if you need it cemented check out the doomy offerings on the track "Last Will and Testament" or consider the odds of anything as dark as "The Queen" getting classic rock airplay-not a chance. Killer album

1st off. This thing fucks! 5/5 track!

For me everything about that riff and guitar tone are metal. It uses the Phyrigian mode of the major scale which can be though of as a minor scale with a flat 2nd. It's often chosen for it's threatening characteristic (think the Jaws theme).  Kicks ass! OHHHHH SCOTLAND WHAT A BEAUTIFUL TRACK!

Juniors Eyes is a tough song to classify. It's definitely not Metal though. The best thing about the track is Geezer's rolling bassline. 

I would like to Nominate SLAM band Krocophile to be added. 
 The album art alone is perfect, and you get very good Slam too! Additionally I reached out to the guys and they were excellent to talk to and do business with. Please consider Lansing Michigan's own KROCOPHILE-SLAMZILLA: THE RETURNING

and I got My Dying Bride on there shortly after the above was taken, a big one that goes under the Nocturnal Depression Patch in Red Font. 

So cool, Zero!

Thank you brother.

Today's song is Black Sabbath's "Johnny Blade" which is close enough to heavy metal in my opinion:

Johnny Blade man.... It's kind a of bloated and mediocre song, but it contains one of my all time favorite Tony Iommi Riffs. If I remember correctly from "I am Ozzy" the Autobiography; Iommi was getting heavily into Queen  and was wanting Sabbath to adapt more of the exploratory elements Queen was doing at the time-it's even more prominant on Technical Ecstacy. Still I would call Johnny Blade a Metal entry if not the heaviest thing in the world.

Thank you. I keep it ever growing. I periodically go through and prune it too. Please do enjoy. 

Doing well up here in the Mitten (Michigan USA). I work as a high school building substitute teacher. This means that I work to fill vacancies in just one specific building, rather than a traveling substitute, it's kind of an ideal niche I found myself in. I have the stability and priveleges of a standard teacher but not nearly as much take-home responsibilty so I'm freed up to play in bands and write about metal with all you lovely people. 
We are nearing the end of the school year for summer, just 3 days to go. Summer plans include getting central air and heat installed and updating the electrical outlets in the home, as well as remodeling the kitchen. There might be a trip down to Florida for a small vacation somewhere in there.
Musically, I'm working with a long time friend on a pop-rock project, jamming in a second group that does standard blues and classic rock, and then working on my own project-a nautical themed black metal project with my saxophone playing friend-called TrencH. 
Life is good, I have a beautiful supportive wife, a good ol hounddog, a 5.7L V8 equipped Dodge Ram 4X4, and a Gene Simmons signature (G2) Gibson Thunderbird with my trusty Orange big combo amp... so all my basic needs are comfortably met. 
Concert-wise I am looking forward to local groups Chain Ripper and Flood the Desert in July. Big name act In this Moment in August and the next day a local slam band called Krocophile that have the best album cover of all time. Probably gonna add some patches to the ol battle vest in there too. 
The challenge is to lose weight but I've hired a personal trainer and dietician, so I think we drop another 20-30 before school fires back up in the fall. 

That's what's up Sonny. I'm so excited to get to the SubRosa stuff. I just have to knock out 5 more albums tonight... after mowing. I SHALL NOT SLEEP TILL IT HAS BEEN DONE!

Been checking out Deathcade this morning and, although I need more time with it, I'm liking what I'm hearing. Some really nice melancholy melodies and a vocalist who at times sounds genuinely in despair. Thanks for the rec, Zero.

Glad to hear you are enjoying it. They also have pretty high quality live footage out there on youtube. I came across an album in the 1st decade black metal challenge list titles "Vampires of Black Imperial Blood" by Mutilation. It's allegedly the pre-cursor to the DSBM genre, and I think it's an absolute masterpiece. However the production values may very well be the worst that you have ever heard so it might not be your cup of tea. I'd still absolutely urge you to check that out.

Not a great deal, but one of my best friends does and Detroit is the host of Movement which I think is the biggest EDM festival in the United States

Deathcade from Nocturnal Depression is in my opinion the best Depressive Black Metal offering of all time. Hell It's my favorite black metal album of all time. That's where I would point you Sonny. It's a compilation of their best songs but re-recorded with better production. Lifelovers' Pulver is pretty damn good too.

Silencer is indeed polarizing, I'm not even a huge fan of it myself, but I recognize it as a major album within the subgenre. 

I absolutely do, and to be honest I'm not sure what that fourth one would be.  Lets see;

1. The Fallen-Easily my first choice as I am a massive doom head.

2. The Horde-My love for Old School Death Metal runs deep.

3. The North-I like Black Metal, but I LOVE DSBM, which seams to be neglected on this site-not a single clan challenge features the likes of Nocturnal Depression, Xasthur, Lifelover, or Silencer

So that leaves us with: 

The Pit-There is a lot of good thrash and power groove out there, there is also a lot of mediocre and bad shit in there.
The Gateway-I don't exactly love the stuff in there, but I'm a school teacher and my students love that stuff. It might be a worthwhile pursuit to relate better to them.
The Infinite-It would certainly be interesting, but I fear a lot of pretentious drawn out technicality for it's own sake kind of stuff. Yucky.
The  Revolution-I only really like the absolute heaviest bands this has to offer. 
The Guardians-The neutral/default choice. I love traditional and classic metal, but I hate Power and goddamned Symphonic Metal with every fiber of my being-it might be fun to tee off on that stuff though.
The Sphere-This is the smallest clan on site right now, but it is my wife's absolute favorite music, so I hear it when she's calling the shots. I don't always like it, but it's always interesting. 

Probably between the Pit, The Sphere, and The Guardians. Care to try to steer me?

If you have not heard "I Don't wanna be me" I would throw that your way. It still has Type-O all over it, but it's a shorter song with a punk rock composition rather than the lengthy slow material you would often associate with them.

Just checked out "I Don't wanna be me" and guess what, I liked it. It sounds a bit like early Sisters of Mercy - yes, I actually love gothic rock, but not gothic metal so much - go figure. I'm also very keen on old-school punk rock and hardcore, so the punky feel to this is actually right up my street. So now I like two TON tracks - we're really getting somewhere!

Although I haven't really listened to Type O Negative for a few years, I still enjoy that track. "I Don't Wanna Be Me" is one of their most upbeat tracks, as opposed to their usual slow gothic doom, and one of my favorite bands Trivium made a cover of that song.

I need to listen to more Trivium. "A Gunshot to the Head of Tribulation" is such a kickass song that I've recently appreciated. The lyrics are really awesome and empowering. 

If you'd like to start your Trivium journey, my personal recommendation to you is the album In Waves.

Yes I would agree. That is a heavy psychedilic offering. 

I kind of agree with your views on the symphonic metal bands, but SubRosa are very much not in that style. They are far doomier than any of those symphonic bands. Check out More Constant Than the Gods.

I think doom metal is very inclusive for women, with loads of bands having female members and not just vocalists, but even when they are singers, the likes of Windhand's Dorthia Cotrrell and Acid King's Lori S. are nothing like Tarja and co.

I grew up with The Runaways and have several of their albums on vinyl from the time. Girlschool I saw a million times during the NWOBHM era - they were on tour almost constantly and were tons better live than on record.

I do quite like Savage Master - have you listened to Smoulder, they are similar, but maybe more epic doom leaning.

We I get done with my homework-writing reviews for clans I will come back and listen to SubRosa and Smolder. Windhand is pretty good, and I forgot to mention Jex Thoth. I tried to get into Acid King many many times, and I just don't click with it.

If you have not heard "I Don't wanna be me" I would throw that your way. It still has Type-O all over it, but it's a shorter song with a punk rock composition rather than the lengthy slow material you would often associate with them.

Just checked out "I Don't wanna be me" and guess what, I liked it. It sounds a bit like early Sisters of Mercy - yes, I actually love gothic rock, but not gothic metal so much - go figure. I'm also very keen on old-school punk rock and hardcore, so the punky feel to this is actually right up my street. So now I like two TON tracks - we're really getting somewhere!

Although I haven't really listened to Type O Negative for a few years, I still enjoy that track. "I Don't Wanna Be Me" is one of their most upbeat tracks, as opposed to their usual slow gothic doom, and one of my favorite bands Trivium made a cover of that song.

I need to listen to more Trivium. "A Gunshot to the Head of Tribulation" is such a kickass song that I've recently appreciated. The lyrics are really awesome and empowering. 

I also really enjoy the Sisters of Mercy, Drive around the abandoned industrial areas of Detroit in the early morning listening to Dominion/Mother Russia. Is a real treat. This Corrosion and Vision Thing are great tracks too. 

The Misfits fucking rule, and always have. I even like the controversial Michael Graves stuff. 

Female Vocals-This is going to ruffle feathers, but I almost always hate it. It's not a "boys club" or "woman hater" thing either. My problems with it are:
1) I simply don't like high clean vocals. Black Metal shrieks are fine, though I do much prefer death metal guttorals and baritones. I don't like high-tenor male singers usually either.
2) A lot of times that singer is the whole focus of the band. You have an otherwise unremarkable/generic sounding band, but "classically trained operatic soprano" so now it's better?
3) These bands tend to attract non-metal fans. "Yeah I like Nightwish, because Tarja Turunen is beautiful and such a great singer, but I hate metal." I've heard that so many times that I've gone bitter. 
4) Evanessence was a war crime against music. 

That being said. Female-fronted bands I do like and recommend.

Savage Master-Stacy Savage: Sonically they sit right between Judas Priest and Slayer. They have an awesome stage show that features Stacey looking very cool and commanding, backed by a lot of big dudes in executioners hoods. It plays wonderfully on stage. "Ripper in Black", "With Whips and Chains", "Queen Satan", and "Looking for a Sacrifice" are all stellar. I see this band every single time they come to town. Stacy is a national treasure.

The Runaways-Joan Jett and Lita Ford-... two words "Cherry Bomb"

Girlschool-Do you like Motorhead? Ever wonder would it would be like if they were an all female unit? Girlschool answers all your questions. They have one album, but it's great. "Race with the Devil"

In this Moment-Maria Brink. This band was white-hot a couple of years back, and then they took some time off. If I remember properly the time off was because Maria was with child. They are back on tour now, just released an Album Called "GODMODE" which I've sampled. It seams alright but you want to go listen to BLOOD for their best stuff. "Blood", "Sick Like Me", "Adrenalize", "Whore"

There are more but that's off my head right now.

I'd also like to draw some attention to Liz Buckingham, Jo Bench, and Lena Abe. These ladies are not the front people for their bands, but they excellent musicians none-the-less that bring unique talents to their respective bands; Electric Wizard, Bolt Thrower, and My Dying Bride.

Glad you enjoyed that select track from Type O. My favorite Type O song is "Pyretta Blaze" because it starts off sounding a lot like Black Sabbath's "Into the Void" and then transitions to very nearly pop chorus. I enjoy those things about Pete's song writing. Since you liked the punkier offering, you might check out Carnivore. Pete fronted Carnivore prior to forming Type O. The content is New York Hardcore Punk with um... "interesting" lyrical choices. 

I have not read all 26 pages of discussion here, so I'm largely going off the content of the 1st post, and I apologize if there is re-treading here.

My interpretation here is that there are two objectives: Draw the line between very hard rock and roll, and heavy metal, and then identify the first 10 metal albums.

I think a lot of us ponder the question of where Hard Rock ends and where Heavy Metal ends. It's definitely something my friends and I have drive ourselves crazy over, but this is what we have mostly agreed upon.

2 critera: 
1) Does the band embrace itself as Heavy Metal?
2) Does Heavy Metal accept that band?

It's about consent in other words.

Pros of this solution: It excludes bands like Deep Purple, who vehemently rejected the Heavy Metal label. Ritchie Blackmore said in no uncertain terms that he hated heavy metal and thought it was a belligerent term that did not do his band justice. It also excludes bands like Ghost, who the mainstream often considers to be a metal band, but a great deal of metalheads would disagree. 

Cons: What I call the Motorhead problem: Lemmy Kilmister was steadfast that Motorhead was not a metal band, just a very loud and fast rock and roll band. Yet the man is damn near universally beloved by the metal community, and it just seams really sad to leave them out.  Motorhead isn't the only band in this position just an easy example of the problem.

Yet, that is where I am so far. 


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As far as identifying early heavy metal; there is a website already in existence: https://mapofmetal.com/ That attempts to chronical the most important metal releases in given sub-genres, including some of the heaviest pre-Black Sabbath rock and roll. We don't have to agree with what it says, but it's not a bad launch pad. 

Dan and Ben seam like damn cool dudes. I know now not to worry about it. I'll probably go back and try to add more bulk to my more lean reviews-not gonna lie sometimes its a real chore, but we'll get it done.

About Type O- I love that whole late 90s'-2000's Gothic Aesthetic. Something about being in formative years, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and Alison Hannigan (Willow). I just love everything about that. It's thick in their work and if you don't like it you probably aren't going to like Type-O, the 69 Eyes, Moonspell, etc. There is just no getting around it with those bands. 

However, if you have not heard "I Don't wanna be me" I would throw that your way. It still has Type-O all over it, but it's a shorter song with a punk rock composition rather than the lengthy slow material you would often associate with them. 

How do you feel about Danzig? 

I feel you on the low sounds. Good doom is like a warm blanket. I will have to look into Tangerine Dream-I'm intrigued. 

When it comes to the technical stuff I don't immediately hate it. I would say Tomb of the Mutilated is a fairly technical album, but it still has recognizable strong structure and hooks and I love that album. 

I don't like things like Brain Drill or Periphery where the whole stick is "look at how goddamn good I am at this instrument." I can play in those styles, and I've done it in the past, but I'd much rather listen to Cronos growl and smack his bass and play like a demon. 

I went back to Gorguts and did my thing. I don't know if you will like the thing, but I thinged my ass off.

Hi, Zero. Just read your review and although I may not have put it quiite so bluntly, I actually agree with your view of excessively technical metal. I am over sixty and have been a metalhead since I was 14, so remember all too well when metal was treated with contempt by fans of other styles of music for being simplistic and dumb, so it rubs me up the wrong way too when some devotees of technical and complex metal look down on fans of "simpler" forms (ie metal with actual songs). It's bad enough when outsiders do it, but it feels like a betrayal when so-called metal brothers do it. But Ben was right, your new review has given everyone a far better insight into who you are and where you're coming from than the original one-liner. For the record, I thought Gorguts' first two albums were pretty good, but when they ditched the songs for a purely technical form of expression on the highly-rated Obscura they completely lost me.

As a massive fan of funeral doom metal and judging by some of your comments so far regarding it, I suppose we won't always see eye to eye, but it's good to meet you and I hope you enjoy your time here. Welcome.

Thank you so much man. That truly means a lot to me. I just didn't know if my brand of negative review would be well received. I've had the misfortune of being around moderation elsewhere (looking at you Reddit) that would chalk up any kind of negativity as toxic trolling, so I had learned to reel myself in. I was genuinely concerned that I was gonna wake up banned this morning. 

I absolutely love funeral doom, I just prefer the "pretty" stuff with the violins and keys as opposed to the oppressive wall of sound synthesizer approach. 

Pretty sweet that we got two newbies who love reviewing albums in the last 3 days.

LOL. Kosie is my wife.