Rexorcist's Forum Replies

Gonna take a break from the war metal to go over the Emperor albums again.

Emperor - In the Nightside Eclipse (1994)

Genres: Symphonic Black, Traditional Black

Black metal had been out for about a decade by the point of this album's release.  We already had a revolution that was beating Venom at their own game, a dorky club pretending to be a cult before someone killed the founder of the club, and of the genre, and the same year as this album was the long awaited release of Mayhem's debut studio album.  By this point, Darkthrone had cemented itself as one of the greatest metal bands on Earth to the masses, and Immortal was just starting.  It had a crazy run before we finally got to Emperor.  Unlike grunge, black metal lived on because it was a niche market that relied on negative rep.  Emperor might've lost their lead influence, but they didn't lose their willpower.

In the Nightside Eclipse was their first outing, and to this day it remains one of the most emulated black metal albums on Earth.  In fact, this album represents a lot of firsts.  The most notable "first" of this album is the dungeon synthesizers, which were an unholy sin that even black metal fans wouldn't commit.  That's boldness for ya'.  And it's not ham-fisted or cheesy in anyway shape or form; they're gorgeous in their Gothic behavior, creepy as hell and add a thick layer of personality without being overused.  Another one is the clearer production.  The guitars might be quite dirty, but through the clean production you get not only the most of the beautiful synths, but the most of the guitars.  let the shredding handle the, ahem, dirty work.

Our singer, Ihsahn, has that absolutely perfect voice for the job.  If you're familiar with their second album, Anthems to the Welkin at Dusk, you might recognize something about this album.  It sounds more like typical black metal, right?  Right and wrong.  These guys were one of the first bands to really perfect what the pure sound of black metal is with the right production, except they also had a symphonic sound to work with.  So instead of being Darkthrone knockoffs, they became something more medieval, fantasy-inspired and epic.  In a way, they totally beat Darkthrone, making a new sound even more fresh, something these guys would do continuously throughout their four album streak.  They were a great bridge between melodic, traditional and the newly formed symphonic brands of black metal.  In other words, this album is purely essential by any definition for technical and melodic proficiency.  On top of that, it sounds exactly like its incredible cover wants you to think it sounds like, so there's a perfectly fitting cover, and one of my personal favorites.

Although it must be said that most of these songs sound very much the same.  I wouldn't be true to myself if I didn't point that out.  Maybe I need to compare this to their "worst" release, Equilibrium IX, but I feel that they had every ability to try to write songs with different approaches and they completely neglected that in the long run, relying on smaller surprises in a few areas rather than trying new things.  At least the album never gets boring.  But on top of that, I think there's a newfound diversity that's still there, especially for its time.  On top of the aforementioned balance between traditional, melodic and symphonic black metal, there are notable traces of gothic metal and prog metal to it, so despite its obvious flaw it's actually quite revolutionary.  Because of this, there's a constant aura eminating from what could be a perfect black metal sound in general, something that's difficult to achieve, and Emperor somehow found a way to make it look easy on their first album.

In the Nightside Eclispe will be iconic throughout the rest of metal history.  It's going to serve as an example of how to perfect the black metal sound, even though it suffers from monotony in comparison to more creative outings by not only Emperor but by other bands.  If your going to check out Emperor, I suggest you do it in chronological fashion.  This is the kind of album that will keep you headbanging throughout its entire run.  For all of its innovations, this is at least a mile ahead of the earlier traditional black metal classic, A Blaze in the Northern Sky by Darkthrone.

96/100

I always felt like it could easily pass itself off as death, so I voted yes.

Profane Order - Slave Morality (2019)

Genres: Bestial Black

Now that I'm exploring more bestial black metal works, usually one band every couple days, I'm finally at one of the modern icons of the scene, one that's gardered a lot of attention in recent time: Profane Order.  If you've hard their popular third album, One Nightmare Unto Another, you'd be familiar with their high jam abilities and flawless production.  They weren't always so squeaky clean, however, as many consider dirty production more "appropriate."  I, however, consider whether or not the decision works for the album and nothing more.  Before their skillful and enjoyable, but samey third album ever saw the light, they made this modern icon: Slave Morality.

The metallic rush of this album is bombastic.  The idea of a BBM's sound and production are more akin to a thunderstorm rather than the average snowstorm, so don't expect any Paysage d'Hiver atmospheres here.  We have the sound of metallic thunder at its maximum output, as one can tell from surprising tracks like "Ancient Blood" which is among one of the most metallic things I've ever heard.  I almost gave that track five stars.  And it's quite obvious that all the songs aren't QUITE the same, even though some moments feel too similar to moments from other songs not to take monotony into consideration.  But varying riffages, solos and tempo changes are must-dos in this album.  And thanks to the slightly dirtier production than their next album, we get another flawless metal atmosphere but with a stronger emphasis on what we expect from BBM.  The band easily has a masterful look on what production techniques and traits are needed for a proper metal album.  Check out the track "Perverse Demonaic" and see what I mean.

So this is easily one of the most fun things I've ever heard in a genre which has been more or less OK to me considering the classics output.  I've said it before, and I'll say it again: a classic like Fallen Angel of Doom by Blasphemy is so poorly-produced, poorly-written and overrated that it has to be easy for later BBM albums to surpass it.  But even if that was a tough challenge, this album makes it look easy.  We get all of the strengths of the popular One Nightmare Unto Another, but with whatever flaws coming later being more focused on and improved in comparison to many BBM albums of this age and the past.

83/100

Profane Order - One Nightmare Unto Another (2023)

Genres: Bestial Black

I've been putting of the more recent BBM band Profane Order for quite some time ever since I started exploring BBM, mostly to look into the classic bands like Blasphemy and Conqueror.  But these bands are hardly satisfying my undying craving for imagination, as most of these classics were either decent, OK or bad.  Profane Order is at the front of the modern BBM scene, which isn't that big but is still relevant for black metal fans if they want the most extreme metal they can get (depending on the production and abilities of the acts).  Since this 2023 album has gardered much attention, and it is 2023, this had to be my first album by them despite it being their third.

Dirty or clean, I need my production to be JUST RIGHT for whatever sound the band is going for.  It's true that dirty production, which is more fit for BBM, could've easily worked with this album.  But the clean production still works perfectly.  You get the most of its metallic abilities, as much as the production of Ride the Lightning did for that album.  On top of that, Illusory's vocals are fucking badass.  These screams aren't just maniacal wails of black metal creepiness, but angry bursts of energy with a small bit of that classic heavy metal aura.  I mean, it was so perfect for the album that I wanted to scream out with him, even though I don't have that ability and I can't understand the words at all.  This combo of production and vocals makes for a perfect example of what war metal should be while vaguely recalling some of the layout and sound traits of the classic early 80's genres that would inspire black metal.

But you know me.  I have to criticize something that sounds samey.  This is yet another case of effectively writing the same song over and over again.  And while this metal sound is top-notch in production and aura, the sad truth is that this tells me that the band is capable of tackling a couple more different types of songs.  I mean, you CAN write different types of songs, even within just war metal, and there's hardly any of that.  But the constant jam factor of the album keeps things so hard and headbanging that the album maintains its presence throughout.

So in short, I like this album well enough.  I'm writing this while listening to Slave Morality, and as I expected, they didn't break form from the previous stuff.  Having said that, they maintain their enjoyable vibes without any other blemish, so this is an album I'd recommend just based on the merit that the strengths of the album are perfect, while the flaws are expected and partly made up for by the strengths.  This manages to be essential for a BBM list based on the skill, not on the history or influence like some early BBM works.

75/100

I would've never thought to look in lists to be fair, but thanks. Maybe a link to those on the clan page as well? Appreciate the help, will get back in on this now. 

Are you on mobile?  There should be three bars by your username, go a little under and to the right.  Touch that, and a menu will drop down, including a link to the clans page and the lists page.  If you're on Desktop, the menu is already expanded, albeit horizontal and not vertical.

Hey all, i've been out a while due to the pandemic and man life has changed quite since i've been here last. Maybe I'm missing something, (and sorry I didn't feel like reading all the posts here in this thread) but what happened to the clan challenges lists, or where can I see them again? I was in the middle of doing the The North's challenges and reviewing all of the first album list but kinda lost track of that. I will say this site runs smoother than before as well and want to get back into things. Appreciate the hard work y'all do to see this still going through these last frustrating years though. :)

Good to have a metalhead back.

Havok - Time Is Up (2011)

Genre: Thrash

Votes: 4

Reason: Modern thrash classic.  Enough said.

I'd actually suggest that Archgoat offer significantly more variety in tempo than 99% of other war metal acts.

Thankfully.  I just don't feel much of a difference in other areas, though.  There are still noticeable amounts of the "write the same song" syndrome there, although it feels more like they're recycling the same few ideas throughout the whole, albiet once again better than Blasphemy did.

Two more bands should be enough to finalize a decent top ten.  Right now it looks more like a collective best-of ranking of multiple acts.

Archgoat - The Light-Devouring Darkness (2009)

Genres: Bestial War Metal

OK, so in my bestial black metal ventures, a single album was all it took to prove that Archgoat is a bit better than the iconic Blasphemy.  In my earlier review for Blasphemy's debut album, I said that they have invented a standard but it would be easy for many bands to beat them at it.  It's pretty obvious that Archgoat was not only one of the bands that were struck with Blasphemy, but would surpass them.  Having said that, surpassing the two Blasphemy albums is not a difficult task to me, and their debut was a decent experience.  How would their next one turn out?

After the dark ambient into and the first song, I thought to myself it would just be a rehash, but I would soon be proved wrong.  The next two songs showed a careful death doom slow pace which was simplistic but fairly hypnotic.  If not for their standard sound, I would've been awestruck with it, but remained only impressed with the decision.  But then track 5, Sodomator of the Doomed Venus (I typed that shit out and I need to wash my hands) steals the show with a short, black punkish display of spasmatic percussion and raw noise.  The noise is further touched up on in the once again simple but purely black title track.  So by this point, I'm quite a bit more impressed with their attempts at further exploring extreme metal itself on this record.  I mean, I still have an obligation to call this album out for low-grade songwriting, but they're doing much more with this album while maintaining the strengths of their first.  The group also makes room for more melody during the slower and doomier moments, but are improving their melodic prowess a little bit in the faster moments, too.  Not much, but still.

So while Archgoat clearly still have some training to do in the songwriting department, they've been able to touch up the concept of innovation a little more.  Having said that, they don't often overcome the monotony of the first album, but at least they're trying.  Easy improvement and a nice direction forward.

68/100

Archgoat - Whore of Bethlehem

Genres: Bestial Black Metal

Alright, so after having been disappointed with Blasphemy's work, I was really hoping my ventures into Archgoat wouldn't become a disaster. Cabinet and Caucasian Concentration Camp are my go-to acts for comparing the good and the bad, as each bands meets their extreme very well.  And Archgoat, having their fine share of albums needed for any BBM collection (if there is such a thing), were practically a must do for me.  So, I started with one extended play which I won't be reviewing here, just to get a taste for their sound first, and then decided to move through their debut upwards.

After than dark ambient intro, it was pretty obvious that the studio-quality production already gave it a serious advantage over Blasphemy's albums.  Thanks to the perfect production, the heaviness is more enjoyable than Blasphemy.  All that was left was to see how the songwriting went.  And lemme tell you, among the mindless thrashing, there were some MAJOR breaths of fresh air in the "give you a break and put something new on the table" department.  Early on, Lord of the Void makes a point of slower doomy moments, and eventually just bursting into seriously unpredictable territory without breaking format, mood or genre.  But I decided that unless the band mixes it up a little more, I'm not going to give it the best rating.  And Dawn of the Light largely did that, although I appreciate the slow Sabbath midsection.  But no matter which song came next, it ended up sounding like a shameless rehash of the last song, so I don't really get the feeling that these guys are bringing war metal to its fullest potential and are just standard.

Archgoat is way better than Blasphemy, that much is obvious.  But this is the kind of album that satisfies raw headbangers and thrashers who need a metallic atmosphere, and are nothing short of the very norm that they set up for black metal musicians everywhere.  Archgoat's proven they can perform a black metal song with the fury necessary, so let's see them try to do something else.

64/100

Here's the hint for tomorrow's Pit album.

Blasphemy - Gods of War (1993)

Genres: Bestial Black Metal, Black Death Metal

After being sorely disappointed in Blasphemy's Fallen Angel of Doom, I was practically begging this album to show more imagination.  I've already found a few bestial black metal albums that I'm really impressed with, and I was hoping that Blasphemy could recreate that for all of their popularity.  This album would have to do.

It was pretty obvious from the first track that these guys were making improvements over their overrated debut.  The production was studio quality, so the dirtiness of the album was overall more effective.  And there were a few little changes in the songwriting as it was much less samey and annoying.  The distinction between black, death, thrash and grind was much clearer here, as we do have a few shorter songs working their way into deathgrind territory, and slight progginess helps create moments of the other three genres while the album remains consistent.  Bottom line, this album had imagination.

But does this mean that I think the different songwriting makes it brilliant?  No, just better than before.  The sad truth is, I don't really get a lot out of these songs as all the different types had already been done better by the likes of Venom, Bathory, Napalm Death, and Death themselves.  This is still pretty basic extreme metal.  I mean, some songs are much better than others, but nothing here really "sucks," it just gets a little boring occasionally.  It eventually gets to the point where the band is recycling all the same tricks in an effort to make things look more imaginative than these things are.

So I'll give this album major points for the obvious improvements over the debut.  Honestly, I wish these guys had continued into a third album because I would've liked to see where they were headed next.  Gods of War is at least a full star over Fallen Angel of Doom, and it's a shame this sophomore release gets second banana to the simple-minded debut.

57/100.

Blasphemy - Fallen Angel of Doom (1990)

Genres: Bestial Black Metal

I need to really thank Metal Academy for motivating me to explore more war metal.  A couple days after I get back in black metal, this thread shows up and suddenly a bunch of war metal albums are being reviewed.  And of course, there are bound to be a couple reviews for the most famous BBM album ever: Blasphemy's Fallen Angel of Doom.  In Daniel's review here, he wrote: "Blasphemy managed to combine all four of the major extreme metal sounds of the time (i.e. death metal, black metal, thrash metal & grindcore) into one swarming mass of largely indecipherable noise."  And he was right.  It was ONE noise.

I heard this album on DMS, a YouTube channel that provides full metal albums with high sound quality, and that includes really dirty sludgy albums with the proper production for the job.  This is just having come off the back of checking out various Teitanblood and Infernal Coil songs, as well as re-evaluating a few black, prog  and death albums.  Pretty much every song shares a 98% DNA similarity.  The production here is only there for the brutality, defeating its own purpose as you can barely here anything beyond the drums which are more or less doing the same thing for all 30 minutes. This production doesn't even sound as dirty or noisy as good black albums tend to be.  it's just bad.  Also having come of the back of the much lesser-known Cabinet's album Claustrophobic Dysentery, which mixes death and black with occasional doom, noise and ambient for very weird sounds, in comparison this album feels more like a bunch of jokers recording a bad demo for a major label rather than an actual studio album.  I'm not kidding.  That's EXACTLY what it sounds like.  it doesn't even get creative with the concept of non-studio works like Bee Thousand did with the concept of Beatles bootlegs. The heaviness was definitely cool at first, but they practically beat it to death, and they only show their most imagination through small bits in the LAST TWO SONGS for crying out loud.

This album will be mimicked many times throughout history, but most will likely succeed because... DAMN.  This album might be brutal, but that's the only strength to me.  Otherwise, it's more boring than Bob Dylan's Shadows in the Night and Trapt's self-titled.  Stick with Teitanblood, Cabinet and Goatpenis.  This is the single most overrated album I have ever heard.  I haven't hated a beloved album this much since that obsolete helf-star rating I gave the Ramones debut years ago (upgraded to a 9/10, bion).  Please tell me the other one will be better.

32/100

Big respect for the blues binge, especially concerning the two musician choices above.  Muddy Waters is my favorite of the normal blues genre, although I haven't gotten around to King Bee yet.

Going off on another vapor EP binge just to make sure I don't put too much metal on my log, although I still plan on getting through at least on metal album a day, notably for the list challenges and to put some war metal on my in-progress top 100 black metal.  But it's really nice to have a lot of relaxing oldschool jazzy stuff for a full weekend off.

Ben, please add these last two Cabinet releases: "Pt. III: Get In... (Enter the Cabinet)" and "E.P."

You guys aren't gonna believe this, I found that album I was looking for.  It took effort.

Cabinet - Claustrophobic Dystentry (2022)

Genres: War Metal, Death Metal

Subs: Noise, Dark Ambient, Post-Metal, Black Noise

In my recent curiosity pertaining to the controversial war metal genre, I started, but didn't finish, dozens of war metal albums that I would shut off in the event that I noticed am obvious flaw, usually the monotony.  I finally ended at a Lynchian journey into the very essence not only of hatred, but of darkness and despair.  It's much like a Hell album, but more appropriately for the North and the Horde rather than the Fallen.

This is a surreal exercise in atmosphere, not in conventional music.  What rhythm you may expect from this album is largely absent, which in most cases, even for the unwritten rule of it set by BBM as a whole, ends up being a flaw.  As Daniel pointed out here, war metal is often about the worship of hatred, although I find that this can be achieved through multiple forms, and thus, through a diverse album.  And so, we have a Gira-style reliance on atmosphere and sound rather than melody, one that drags you through its terrifying world with little ambient / noise surprises here and there, oftentimes flawlessly produced.  Sound effects turn into instruments and instruments turn into atmosphere, rather than just playing monotonous music.  The best example of this may be Hallway of Dacryocystotomic Depriciation.  Even immediately afterwards on the next track do we get an extraordinarily fuzzy guitar carefully raising in volume behind the foreground of a clearly produced static buzz accompanied by blowing winds, and pairing with these fuzzy death guitars are clearer and more polished post-black tremelos that somehow pair with the death fuzz flawlessly.  This all happens in the first MINUTE of Eternally Pendulemic Flourescent Bulb / Deteriorating Interminably.

Never before have I heard a metal album that is so rhythmless and so full of imagination at the same time.  This is music at some of its most reliant on presence before rhythm, and successful as well.  It took a real creative genius to achieve something like this and manage to mix clear production with fuzzy production, sadness with anger and ambiance with terror so beautifully and so disgustingly.

10/10.  Easily making it somehwere in my top 10 black metal and death metal albums at the same time.

The "atmospheric sludge metal" discussion has been had many times here at the Academy with the unanimous position of The Fallen members being that it's much better suited to post-metal than sludge metal. I'm also thinking about removing that subgenre too & simply having the releases tagged as post-metal but we can discuss that elsewhere but let's keep this thread about deathgrind.

Yeah, there are some bands I don't even consider sludge at all.  Namely Rosetta.

But as far as deathgrind goes, then my vote's easy: go for it.  Lots of deathgrind feels like death metal to me anyway.

This actually leads to a whole new discussion on its own.

I've been thinking that some genres should be tagged as combinations of more than one parent genre for a while now.  Having said that, it's best if we stay WITHIN SINGLE CLANS.  For The Horde, the decision is easy.  But when it comes to something like atmo-sludge, I've never really considered it a "post-metal" subgenre.  Most people on the RYM discussions consider it post because of length and atmosphere.  If that's literally all it took, why didn't they include atmo-black metal?

The whole concept of war metal is intended to be pretty limited by its very definition to be honest Rex (i.e. complete worship of metal's most extreme elements) which has probably got a lot to do with why people like Sonny & I love it. There are a few artists that sit somewhere between war metal & other genres like death metal & grindcore (see Infernal Coil, Teitanblood, etc.) but you're not gonna find any acoustic interludes or long progressive improvisational sections here. You're still looking exclusively at pure hatred, vengeance & goat sodomy. Ultimately, if you don't like the more popular bands like Blasphemy, Damaar or Archgoat then war metal is probably not the subgenre for you.

The music itself is fine, I'm just looking for something that's likely to amaze me, something I'd put in my top 500.  Otherwise, these kinds of albums will end up being 9/10's at best.  Although, it's totally possible to "worship" the concept of hatred in multiple formats.  We've got dissonant death, grind, deathcore, black noise, etc.  And the thing is I've found some albums with genre tagging somewhat like this on RYM, but the problem is that most of the songs are tackling all these genres based on a "signature sound," so the so-called variety loses its quality.

Besides, if my Emperor ranking proves anything (4, 2, 3, 1), I'm a very against-the-grain metalhead.  So I don't really mind looking like a weirdo with it.  But I do still have a certain standard of five-stars, so it didn't hurt to ask.  Thanks anyway.

Look, I'm not saying that Ben & I won't consider some of this in the future but it's probably worth mentioning what the Clan Challenges are there for in the first place. They're intended to prove that a potential member has a good understanding & interest in the clan in question before allowing them entry to that clan which is the reason that we haven't included challenges based around niche genres as they don't do much to prove a person's commitment to the overall clan. I mean, if someone really only likes Neoclassical Metal but not Heavy Metal or Power Metal then I don't think they're a great fit for The Guardians. The same can be said for Stenchcore in The Pit or Folk Metal in The North.

Do you mean viking metal?  I'm just pointing out the ones that are missing but listed on the clans page rather than the lists page, and the subgenres of the ones listed aren't as necessary to me, but more "maybe" than the "maybe" level of the missing prime genres.  And on top of thqt, if the research in something is needed but neither you or Ben have the time, I'm happy to do it if you need me to.  I mean, much of what I do is go through the RYM charts and choose which ones are both popular and highly rated enough to work.  I was a little more merciful on the ratings for my recent deathcore list, though. :P

As far as folk metal goes, I like it well enough.  It has enough similarities to the guardians stuff to consider, even though I feel it really does belong in the North for its common reliance on atmosphere.  Hell, I've already got 12 five-stars for it, and five for viking metal., which has heavy ties to both genres thanks to several popular and well-recieved bands: Bathory, Equilibrium, Ensiferum, Falkenbach, Finsterfrost, Enslaved, Thyrfing, etc.  Now that I list these, did I make a custom list for that?

You know, I'll post my own custom list challenges in my lists page instead.

Maybe you two can help me.  I'm into more diverse albums, in black metal terms my favorite examples are The Work Which Transforms God, Verisakeet and Eternity of Shaog.  So which war metal albums are the most diversified?  I know a lot of them are pretty samey, as I've read.

I just do not buy into this notion that there is any halfway substantial quantity of people out there waiting to join a metal forum/site.

I don't remember a notion specifically being mentioned, though.  But it's true that balancing new ideas with a sense of familiarity will broaden the range of attraction.  Specifically which of one, the other or both will attract who is basically a coin toss if there's attraction at all, but there's really no risk involved.

As for the general cleanup, that's where some of the smaller things kick in, like the recent idea to put a border over completed lists.  And of course, we should just delete the 5th clan mention from the FAQ.  As for clan challenges, it's best to handle any edits now before later, since many of them have yet to be completed by anyone, even though many of the clan challenge list categories already have a fine number of them.  The missing genres so far are:

FALLEN: Drone

GATEWAY: Maybe Nu depending on our mood.

GUARDIANS: Neoclassical

HORDE: Having a Deathgrind one feels appropriate considering the clan's two focuses.

INFINITE: Post-Metal, not my favorite metal genre but I'm always willing to do the research needed.  it's already begging for Agalloch and Solstafir.

NORTH: Viking if there's enough.

PIT: Stenchcore

REVOLUTION: Deathcore and maybe a mathcore one.

SPHERE: It really just needs "era" lists.

The new Cryptopsy, As Gomorrah Burns, it quite simple and absitively posolutely... meh.

Personally, I'd hate it if this site started a discord.  I just hate discord.  I prefer the effing MLP villain solely by virtue of John de Lancie.

Has Infernal Coil given any word as to a second studio release?

I was outbid on Metallica tickets.  They're playing with Suicidal Tendencies.

The badges and ranks would be more like little add-ons based on a potential building up by little bits, like what RYM does but with different angels.  RYM doesn't really need a badge system.  But it's not like I wanted to "change the world," just to further flesh out current features.  Some of them need a little more.

I love the sorting hat idea, though.  This is yet another thing other websites don't have.  But the thing here is that we'll need to devise a system of tags that would make for proper recommendations.  But as opposed to tagging every individual album, each clan would have different types of tags.  If we take the questionnaire route like a lot of online Sorting Hat games, they'd need to be sweet and simple, none of that Mystery Dungeon stuff.  Example: do you prefer fast or slow music?  Which vibe are you into: robotic, fantasy, ghostly, evil, maniacal, etc?  A simpler variant would have to launch so it doesn't seem to complicated.

Let's be clear about something. I've not received a cent for anything to do with Metal Academy, and have put a lot of sweat and tears into it, not to mention well in excess of $10K in developing it and many more thousands on running costs. I've never considered monetising it, as that would either involve advertising all over the place (which I hate) or having some sort of Patreon set up (for which we obviously don't have enough regulars to even consider). I'll also point out that I've never even looked at site visit stats, as it's not something I care much about. I imagine a lot more people than we realise find their way to the site but never become members, perhaps using it as a source for high quality metal album covers (for which I'm convinced it's now the go to site on the internet).

I designed and built Metal Academy because it's something I personally wanted to use. Of course I hoped that there would be lots of other metal fans that would embrace the idea and that a community would form around it, but even if no-one had ever come, I'd still be using it and spending hours every day adding releases. If find it satisfying and even meditative, and scratches my completist itch. Perhaps there just isn't a big audience for this sort of site anymore, with the younger generation seeing social media platforms as the be all and end all for pretty much everything in their lives. Blogs and forums are an old school concept after all. I can't imagine adding any particular feature and suddenly having hundreds of regulars, but if it were to happen, that feature would have to be truly unique and fascinating. Maybe we just have to think harder about how we could utilise the site's overarching clan idea to make something people couldn't resist being part of.

As for your suggestion that "we really need more lists for the Sphere and Revolution", well I'm not opposed to it, but I don't think anyone has ever completed the current challenges. I see no reason to make 2 or 3 Industrial Metal challenges when it seems like no-one is interested in completing the first one. Based on everything you've said above, it sounds like getting a fourth clan would be just the sort of thing you'd be excited about, and yet you haven't got one yet. Do you have an idea which one you would want to add?

Tthis isn't even about monetizing anymore.  I don't want to do the weekly track things, I like the site, but there isn't enough to do, so I'm bored.  And if mentioning other people never convinces anyone, then at least consider that currently I would like more to do here than the general norm at least.  So I throw ideas around here in the hopes that maybe something new will come along.  I know what I want my fourth clan to be, but I want to keep it a surprise, and the clan challenges are going to take quite a while because I have other albums I need to listen to outside of metal.  So while I can't do these things, I encourage things that may or may not help flesh out other areas of the site in a community based method, which is where I got the idea for the weekly chart albums thread.

I know people who go searching for niche forums, and I can promise you one thing: if it looks like there's hardly anyone here, they'll likely leave.  I'm trying to help make this place look a little better, because that's what I've done for years on multiple websites, and I'd like to get back to it with something new, plausible and workable.  And you NEED people here to complete more halls as wel, but there's more to it.  You need people to flesh out the overall charts here.  The number one here has been the same ever since I rated it over a year ago.  A great way to attract people is to flesh each and every area out.

I don't know what year Metal Academy was founded, but I've been helping other build up and add to websites for the past 16 years.  All I'm asking is that SOMETHING be taken into consideration, because no matter what forum I go to, if something looks incomplete, I try to help as much as I can.  And if it's too dead, I leave for a while.

I don't know what the fear concerning this is, but it seems like the only two complaints for almost every idea I've had so far are "becoming Metal Archives" or "neglecting clan integrity."  No offense, but I feel the need to say this: I don't always get a convincing explanation as to how becuase sometimes it feels more like a "fear of the unknown" thing.  If we're not going to have a fifth clan, I'm cool with it as long as it's official.  All I needed was confirmation.  We need to take the fifth clan option off of the FAQ.  But a website will be more fun if there's more to do.  Maybe Metal Archives has a lot of pretentious people, but the majority of people on Metal Forum and Metalstorm are pretty chill, and Metalstorm even has a ban list.   And my interest in the Sphere's lack of lists is purely personal, as I view having only one list in comparison to the rest quite jarring, and that industrial metal has more to offer.

There are plenty of nerds these days who care about general appearances, and I don't mean graphic design.  I hung out on RYM for years, and much of what we talked about were how the overall charts looked.  Now the clans, halls and ranking of art are all great ideas, and a big part of the reason I stay here.  I'm doing what I can to make these things look better, but I can't do everything alone, so I throw ideas around to try and flesh things out.  And I know this may sound childish, but it does get a bit hurtful when every idea I propose is either ignored or shot down.  I've tried all the stuff here, but much of it ends up with little no know result because of lack of people.  So I'm going to ask: at least give the Official Chart Reviewers Club a chance.  That and the new Sphere lists are the best ideas I have.  Besides, eventually I'm going to complete one list of each genre for fun, because I'm here not just to have fun, but to educate myself.  Namesake aside, I did that on RYM too.

AND: This is the perfect time to add new Revolution and Sphere lists for the reason you just stated: we can perfect and flesh them out before anyone completes them, that way there's no confusion or glitches if we do it afterwards.

I admit that the site has its pros, but as long as it's just the few of us, there really isn't much activity going on as most of us don't post often.  I could be wrong on this, but doesn't more people visiting generate more revenue for the creators to put towards the site?

I don't think the site is monetised in any way, Rex, and all the costs have been borne by Ben and Daniel alone.

That honestly doesn't feel right.  I mean, if streaming services give revenue per stream, there shoul be some system for visits.

But honestly, there are people who are into other ideas of fun.  Personally, I'm not into the whole weekly track thing, and I know others might not be.  Ranking up or collecting badges would only be another thing to do here, and it would stay true to the metal spirit as it is still based on writing GOOD and full reviews.  I know I'm into that kind of thing, as well as designing them.  It's not as much about attracting newe people as it is having more to do when everything else isn't satisfying.

Plus, we really need more lists for the Sphere and Revolution anyway.

I admit that the site has its pros, but as long as it's just the few of us, there really isn't much activity going on as most of us don't post often.  I could be wrong on this, but doesn't more people visiting generate more revenue for the creators to put towards the site?

Solid list, Rex! One question though; the 2005 Suicide Silence EP or their 2017 album? The latter has their controversial one-time switch to full-on nu metal.

I think I forgot the album title when composing the list and got mixed up.  I'll change it later

Here we go, a deathcore challenge list.

1. Rareform – After the Burial (Rerecording)
2. Lorna Shore – Pain Remains
3. Born of Osiris – The Discovery
4. Deformity – Murder Within Sin
5. Morser – Two Hours to Doom
6. Shadow of Intent – Melancholy
7. Fit for an Autopsy – The Sea of Tragic Beasts
8. All Shall Perish – Awaken the Dreamers
9. Xibalba – hasta la muerte
10. Humanity's Last Breath – Valde
11. Whitechapel – The Valley
12. Veil of Maya – The Common Man's Collapse
13. The Acacia Strain – Wormwood
14. The Red Chord - Fed Through the Teeth Machine
15. Carnifex – Slow Death
16. Methwitch – Indwell
17. Suicide Silence – Suicide Silence
18. Despised Icon – The Ills of Modern Man
19. Thy Art Is Murder – Hate
20. Rings of Saturn- Lugal Ki En
21. Chelsea Grin – Desolation of Eden
22. Venom Prison – Samsara
23. Kardashev – Liminal Rite
24. Brand of Sacrifice – Lifeblood
25. Infant Annihilator – The Elysian Grandeval Galèriarch

You're autistic??? I thought I was the only one here! High-5!

Mermaidman and Barnacleboy UNITE!

Personally, I'd like to see people taking whatever they like from the Academy so I wouldn't want to offer upgraded statuses to those that see merit in completing the clan challenges when there are so many other ways to contribute to the site. In fact, I'd argue that bringing new members to the site, regularly contributing to the forums, helping to close out Hall of Judgement submissions & participating in the monthly playlist & feature release activities all bring more to the wider community than progressively completing clan challenges in isolation. Besides, I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with individuals holding higher statuses than others on the Academy given that our original intent was to create an elitist-free environment where everyone is treated equally.

I repeat: They aren't really "higher status."  They'd only be a measurement of how many clan challenges you accumulate.  On Metal Forum, there's a rank status but nobody ever brought it up on the forums.  It doesn't really feel important as it was more of a "way to go for getting this far" kind of thing, like a special cutscene from a Metroid game.  It was just there for fun, same as the badge system on Wikia.  Now I don't know how it works on Metallum, but if there's one thing I do know: this community cannot be compared to them because we're nowhere near as stuffy.  Honestly, if you're gonna gloat about it, chances are that the rest of the community will make fun of you for it.  Metal Archives is... special.  And this is coming from the autistic one.  Normal metal websites like this, Metal Forum and Metal Music Archives don't need to worry about it.

^ Lots of black metal there.

On the subject of black metal, I just rearranged my black metal releases on my over top 100 metal list.  I've got a couple new entries, kicked off Immortal and rose one album all the way from the 70's to top 5.

https://metal.academy/lists/single/218

New BM top ten:

1. Blut Aus Nord - The Work Which Transforms God

2. Emperor - Prometheus

3. Alcest - Souvenirs d'un autre monde

4. Enslaved - Mardraum

5. Moonsorrow - Verisäkeet

6. Windir - Arntor

7. Gris - Il était une forêt...

8. Esoctrlihum - Eternity of Shaog

9. Oranssi Pazuzu - Mestarin kynsi

10. Deafheaven - Ordinary Corrupt Human Love

I think the current clan system works fine.  Simple reward from Metal Academy is not how many clans I end up with or not but how much new music I discover from the site as a whole (yes, a lot of it gleaned from the challenges section but also the feature releases and playlists give me plenty to run at as well).

I agree, which is why I think encouraging people to complete more challenges from their own clans would be a good idea.  I mean, once you complete three, there's little motivation to complete others.

I found myself in a major urge to re-evaluate my black metal standards after having fallen slightly out of favor with Immortal.  I'm now rechecking out the Emperor discography, and here's my first review, for the only Emperor album I had not heard before today.

Emperor: Prometheus: The Discipline of Fire & Demise (2001)

Genres: Symphonic Black, Traditional Black

It's common knowledge that there are those in the music community who need new music albums by certain bands to sound almost exactly like their classics, so changes of pace are unwelcome.  So these new sounds are unfairly treated.  I, having learned to grow annoyed with monotony, embrace change.  That is what makes some albums much more engrossing, like Metallica's Black Album, Slayer's Seasons of the Abyss, or more appropriately, Emperor's Prometheus.  And it's an appropriately named album, because Prometheus, in the myth, committed a cardinal sin of stealing fire from Mount Olympus and bringing fire to humanity.  This album commits the sin of reinventing the band even though they were already doing well as black metal champions.  NEVERTHELESS!  I will not consider it five-stars based on change.  They have a new sound, and what matters is seeing if they can pull of the new sound or not.

The changes were made very clear very quickly.  No longer the traditional symphonic band that made them so beloved, they were taking an early shot at progressive black metal, right after Enslaved took the idea seriously.  As a result,t his album is excruciatingly riff-heavy, as evident by the death-infused intro, The Eruption.  One can tell from the next track, Depraved that Emperor hasn't lost their sense of melody, and probably even improved it.  It even features a little of that symphonic sound from the first two albums among the black metal villainy and the heavy metal riffs.  I mean, this song is as metal in spirit as Priest's Painkiller, and may even be my favorite Emperor song.  The album shoots right back into the symphonic sound of earlier albums in overdoses in Empty, which is less proggy, so we get a taste of the early days, complete with a new and innovative spacey dungeon synth backdrop. The prophet is more straightforward, slower and more menacing at first before its second half relies on superspeed to get the job done, and the combo works very well.

We continue with The Tongue of Fire, which is a lengthy, proggy and even spacey epic that tells its own sort of story through the music.  It utilizes length and creativity to keep the operatic spirit strong.  In the Wordless Chamber mixes it up by returning to the loud, menacing and symphonic brutality of the original two albums again, only this time it's louder than Empty, and far more frightening because of it.  The riffs are more oriented in traditional black metal rather than the prog and heavy riffage of many previous tracks on this album. Grey takes a more wacky and insane approach the the evil sound, kind of like something from Mayhem's debut, and there's even a couple instances of heavy metal wails which comes as a complete surprise, but is molded with the Emperor vocals so well that it's a complete boon rather than a bane.  He Who Sought Fire is a real jammer that takes more conventional metal riffs and molds them traditional black metal ones.  It's a perfect combination of melody and speed.  And finally, Thorns On My Grave is a powerful and operatic climax that satisfies perfectly as an ending.

I admit that I avoided this album for a while because, considering the ratings, I didn't feel a strong need to go check it out since I already had a black metal top 100 I was happy with.  I mean, Equilibrium IX was a great piece, but it wasn't the same as the first two.  But since I've been re-evaluating my metal standards again, especially black metal, I decided to give this a go.  I have to admit that I like this more than the original two albums because the band did a better job of reinventing themselves than Metallica and Slayer did. There's no telling where the album's going to go next.  It has everything a traditional black metal album needs and can do.  The symphonic sound is still there, there's some prog attached which makes the longer songs more inventive, the more traditional moments are as powerful and menacing as ever, an there are trace amounts of death metal scattered around.  Every melody is catchy, easy to headband to and does what it wants, being angry or epic or devastating, flawlessly.

I didn't expect this to become one of my favorite traditional black metal albums, but it did.  This is the kind of album I search for whenever I explore a genre, be it a new one or one I'm re-evaluating.  I'm going against the grain bigtime stating that this could be my favorite Emperor album.  Having fallen in love with the way this album was written, I now have to go back to the first teo Emperor albums and see if they still hold their current ratings on my chart.

I guess the "titles" would only measure how much "studying" we've done in our own clans.  Actually, a way to maintain clan integrity would be to make sure certain titles pertaining to completing outside list (meaning lists outside your clans) could NOT be achieved until you've completed a certain number of challenges from your own clans.  Obviously, completing ALL of them would have to be avoided considering that some clans have far more challenges than others.  The Sphere's industrial metal would need more challenge lists.  I can probably make a cyber metal one, but there aren't enough bands for New Dutch.  Of course, melodic metalcore and deathcore lists for the Revolution will be easy.  There's plenty of that going around.

I must admit that I have considered attempting other clan challenges just for the fun of it and I did make an aborted attempt on one of the Guardians challenges (which I may yet revive). Apart from anything else, they are a good way to get into less familiar genres as they tend to include releases that are important to the genre as well as being of a high quality. I found the Death Metal challenge to be extremely rewarding and I learnt quite a bit about the genre whilst doing it. I think there is sufficient satisfaction in completing one for it's own sake. 

I seem to remember an early conversation when a merit system was dismissed as being distracting and causing a tendency amongst some people to "mine" rewards.

Distracting how?

Because the point of the site is not to accumulate rewards that create a "hierarchy" as is rife on metal archives.

I mentioned that the hierarchy wouldn't actually mean anything but just be for fun.

I must admit that I have considered attempting other clan challenges just for the fun of it and I did make an aborted attempt on one of the Guardians challenges (which I may yet revive). Apart from anything else, they are a good way to get into less familiar genres as they tend to include releases that are important to the genre as well as being of a high quality. I found the Death Metal challenge to be extremely rewarding and I learnt quite a bit about the genre whilst doing it. I think there is sufficient satisfaction in completing one for it's own sake. 

I seem to remember an early conversation when a merit system was dismissed as being distracting and causing a tendency amongst some people to "mine" rewards.

Distracting how?

On the one hand, the point is extremely valid.  On the other hand, the Academy aspect IS about learning.  Both have their pros and cons, but sticking with five clans DOES feel a little excessive.

But I just thought of something.  What if there in fact is some kind of reward for completing one list from each challenge?  And then I thought: ranking system.  I mean, the ranks don't actually come into play as a militant thing in the long run, but the idea is a lot of fun if you do it right.  No need to replicate the following example, but on my first forum, there was a level system ran by accumulating points for more priveleges.  On that forum, it allowed for more priveleges per user, but I don't think we need to go that far.  If the academy thing is just for fun, then I say "honor rolls for fun."  Wikia / Fandom does that a lot, and I even designed badges for a couple of wikis.

Obviously, the ranking system would be acquired by how many clan challenges you complete.  I mean, it feels to early to put into practice now, but it would be fun to try and work for cooler titles... assuming the coding makes it plausible.

Krallice is a consistently fine metal band with a strong sense of atmosphere.  They have a tendency to be riff heavy, and it really shows here on Years Past Matter.  At first, the album is very intricate and cool.  It makes a quick point of being a little proggy and riff heavy, and the riffs are either good or great throughout, so it's a very consistent record, especially since the atmosphere never wanes.  Unfortunately, this also means the album never changes.  So while the album always sounds cool, for fans of quirky new ideas, the album will be underwhelming.  It doesn't have that fleshed out experimental side like Ygg Huur or Prelapsarian.  And it isn't QUITE an atmo-album, but it's atmo enough to give it that touch the heavier riffage needs to attract fans of either variant.  It's more like a continuation of Diotima in the sense that it's trying out new riffs and ideas.

This album boasts basically one format of creativity for a straight hour.  So while it's a cool metal album in its own right, I can't really call this a grand new direction or standout classic for black metal.  But it is quite a cool album and it improves on Diotima in all aspects.  So I would recommend this if you're curious.

80/100

I read something here about it.  That's not the kind of thing my mind would make up.  When I see it I'll let you know.  But it surprises me that you never had a "discussion."

Ben & I certainly discussed what the maximum amount of clans would be right at the beginning of the Academy website if you wanna get technical but we decided that it wasn't a good idea to go above four. In fact, I wasn't even too keen on allowing a fourth if I'm being completely honest but I ended up caving in the end. Since that time we've only responded to people's enquiries about whether we'd consider allowing a fifth but it's never been something we've seriously considered up until now.

Well if the final decision is that there will only be four, I'm cool with that too.

Also I think I found a potential criterion for that fifth clan Daniel and Ben have discussed the possibility of: completing one of each clan list.  If they already discussed that and decided against it, nevermind then.

For the record, Ben & I have had no discussion around allowing a fifth clan. I'm not a fan of it personally as I think it reduces the effectiveness of the clan concept.

I read something here about it.  That's not the kind of thing my mind would make up.  When I see it I'll let you know.  But it surprises me that you never had a "discussion."

So are you five gonna call yourselves the Pentagram?

Actually, Rex, there are 4 of them, so how about the Extreme Foursome?

Right I miscounted.  You say Extreme Foursome, I think Extreme Dinosaurs. :P.

EDIT: It was in the FAQ under Can I change my clans or join more than 3?  I think, however, it's something that only people with the special privilege of whoever finishes whatever criteria needed for it would actually go through, so it wouldn't steer too far from the main point, especially since most people aren't progressing through the lists at a fast pace, what with aforementioned "other albums" needed to listen to between all of the different events and threads people take active interest in already.  I mean, you'd basically have to prove that you're EXTREMELY DEDICATED in order to accomplish it, so the idea of actually warranting that fifth clan would be at least more than twice as challenging as getting the fourth clan.

So are you five gonna call yourselves the Pentagram?

Also I think I found a potential criterion for that fifth clan Daniel and Ben have discussed the possibility of: completing one of each clan list.  If they already discussed that and decided against it, nevermind then.

This weeks NORTH album:

Krallice - Years Past Matter (2012)

Genre: Atmo-Black

Votes: 1

Hint Breakdown: The tracks are listed as IIIIIII to IIIIIIIIIIII, growing in one more "I" until we get to 12 "I's."

Reason: Krallice was a favorite of mine back when I was first starting black metal, and I've been meaning to go back to this.  So it's really more of a personal choice than anything.

Good lists, Rex! I think those can be good replacements for the one official Sphere clan challenge. Please talk to Ben about that idea. Anyway, I approve of those lists, except Samael's earlier black metal was still dominant in Ceremony of Opposites, maybe replace that album with Passage or Eternal?

Whichever Samael feels most appropriate.  Obviously, I'd let others flesh these out as I haven;t heard most of these.

Also, wrong thread by accident.

Not currently, no. But it's an interesting idea that I'll put in my list of potential improvements.

How about a faint, smokey glow around the border of the 2x2 album picture with the clan color?

For fun I made three challenge lists for the Sphere.

1st Era

1. Godflesh – Streetcleaner
2. Ministry – Psalm 69
3. Killing Joke – Pandemonium
4. Strapping Young Lad - Xity
5. Fear Factory – Demanufacture
6. Rammstein – Sehnsucht
7. Marilyn manson – Antichrist Superstar
8. White Zombie - Astro-Creep: 2000 - Songs of Love, Destruction and Other Synthetic Delusions of the Electric Head
9. Red Harvest – Hybreed
10. Samael – Ceremony of Opposites
11. Nailbomb – Point Blank
12. Dødheimsgard – 666 International
13. Static-X – Wisconsoon Death Trip
14. Slab! – Descension
15. Old – Low Flux Tube
16. KMFDM - Nihil
17. Lard – The Last Temptation of Reid
18. Circle of Dust – Brainchild
19. Kong – Phlegm
20. Oomph! - Oomph!
21. Pitchshifter – www.pitchshifter.com
22. 16volt – SuperCoolNothing
23. Misery Loves Co. – Misery Loves Co.
24. Die Krupps - II: The Final Option
25. Skrew - Dusted


2nd Era
1. Strapping Young Lad – Alien
2. Rammstein – Mutter
3. Godflesh - Hymns
4. Killing Joke  Killing Joke
5. Red Harvest - Sick Transit Gloria Mundi
6. KMFDM – Hau Ruck
7. Ministry – Rio Grande Blood
8. Fear Factory - Digimortal
9. Sybreed – Slave Design
10. Kill the Thrill – Tellurique
11. HALO – Body of Light
12. Pain – Nothing Remains the Same
13. Eisbrecher - Antikörper
14. The Axis of perdition - Deleted Scenes From the Transition Hospital
15. Flesh Field – Strain
16. Turmion Kätilöt – Hoitovirhe
17. P.H.O.B.O.S. - Tectonics
18. Aborym – Generator
19. Dødheimsgard – Supervillain Outcast
20. Spineshank – The Height of Callousness
21. Static-X – Machine
22. Deathstars – Terminal Bliss
23. The mad Capsule Markets – 010
24. Mnemic – The Audio Injected Soul
25. Emigrate – Emigrate

The Modern Era

1. Godflesh – Post Self
2. Fear Factory - Mechanize
3. Northlane – Alien
4. Rammstein - Rammstein
5. Code Orange – Underneath
6. Author and Punisher – Beastland
7. Rob Zombie - Venomous Rat Regeneration Vendor
8. Blue Stalhi – Blue Stalhi
9. Fange – Pantocrator
10. Uniform – Shame
11. Sybreed – God Is an Automaton
12. Static-X - Project: Regeneration Vol. 1
13. 3TEETH – shutdown.exe
14. Linemann – F & M
15. Motionless in White – Scoring the End of the World
16. Mechina – Conquerer
17. Neurotech - Infra Versus Ultra
18. Celldweller – Satellites
19. Circle of Dust – Machines of Our Disgrace
20. Oomph! - Ritual
21. Black Magnet – Hallucination Scene
22. Emigrate – Silent So Long
23. Lord of the Lost – Thornstar
24. Corrections House – Last City Zero
25. Shining – One One One

Out of curiosity, is there a way to mark any specific challenges that are completed?