Shadowdoom9 (Andi)'s Forum Replies

I've started revisiting a couple albums from one of my personal power metal Big 4 bands, Kamelot, and this energetic title track from the mighty Fourth Legacy has left a strong mark in the band's legacy:

I actually meant Japanese stenchcore band Asmodeus, but the Czech Asmodeus is a good request too.

After the recent confirmation that stenchcore is a valid primary genre for Metal Academy, I've realized that there's one other Pit-related issue: whether speed metal should remain a Pit genre or a heavy metal subgenre! RYM now has Speed Metal as a subgenre to Heavy Metal, which is a Guardians genre, and I can kinda understand why. Alongside the RYM description, "Originating from the NWOBHM and influenced by the work of early heavy metal bands, being faster and somewhat more aggressive than heavy metal", when I still had The Guardians in my clan lineup and heavy/power metal on my radar, most of the speed metal releases I've listened to (and it was very few) were also one of The Guardians genres. Those releases I used to listen to included the first two releases each of Helloween, Running Wild, Blind Guardian, and X Japan (the former two in the mid-80s and the latter two in the late 80s), all having both speed metal and either heavy metal or power metal. Honestly I believe that while the releases have a few aggressive thrashy aspects in the sound, it's mostly just the fast speedy tempo, with the rest of the style being one of those two genres, in some ways similar to DragonForce which is just speedy power metal. However, the one speed metal release I still have a rating for, Voivod's War and Pain, is straight into thrashy territory. So...

The Guardians - 4

The Pit - 1

With that, I definitely find speed metal to be more of a heavy metal subgenre, but what about the rest of you? If anyone here is up for exploring speed metal or has some knowledge of the genre, please feel free to check out some of its releases and discuss what you think. Daniel, this would be a good challenge for you after resting from your stenchcore deep dive. Feel the need for speed!

Here's the Speed Metal clan challenge to get started: https://metal.academy/lists/single/64

They were modernizing a little when they released their final album, making a shift into groove metal territory.  Maybe they're trying to find the right "relevant" sound?

With the thrash revival happening recently, my prediction for the album to have the progressive tech-thrash of Mental Vortex is possible, though with a bit of the Grin groove.

I actually find out last year about the band's plans to work on an album from an Agoraphobic News interview video I've shared here: https://metal.academy/forum/13/thread/783

Coroner is back together and working on new studio material.  Is anyone else as hyped s I am?

*raising hand to the roof*

I hope for their new album to have more of the progressive tech-thrash from Mental Vortex, and also for a few other long-gone awesome 80s/90s thrash/tech-thrash bands to work on their upcoming albums like they said they would, such as Dark Angel, Demolition Hammer, and Sadus.

Hi, Ben. Here are some releases/bands to add to help expand this site's stenchcore collection. Note that there are some Daniel objected to them being stenchcore during his deep dive into the genre, but those issues can be settled via judgement submissions. It's also quite a lot of requests, so take your time. Anyway, please add:

Amebix - Arise! and Make Some Fucking Noise!

Axegrinder

Deviated Instinct (including split album with Grave and Devolution)

Legion of Parasites

Genital Deformities

Misery (crust/stenchcore band from Minneapolis)

Extinction of Mankind (including split album with Misery)

Χαοτικό Τέλος

Asbestos

Depressor

Filth of Mankind

Armenia

Audio Kollaps

Hellshock

Zoe

Revölt

Effigy / Abigail

Limb From Limb

Sanctum

Instinct of Survival

Contagium

Asmodeus (stenchcore band from Tokyo, Japan)

Makiladoras

Cancer Spreading

Krang

Fatum

Alehammer

Repression Attack

Swordwielder

Disturd

Winds of Genocide

Subterror

Carnage (stenchcore band from Lisbon, Portugal)

Hexx

Global Despair

Ligæder

Agnosy

Demolition Axe

Sacrilege - Ambulance Station Squat, London, 1985 + the First & Second Demos

Corrupted Human Behavior

Metachrist

I can help expand the stenchcore collection in MA by suggesting releases to add in The Pit requests thread. Stay tuned for my requests...

I get your point, Daniel. I guess I was so caught up in the ambient parts. I also agree that there's very little stenchcore in the release. As I said in my review, Inde$troy is essentially an 8-part ambient industrial sludge epic with barely any of their crust/grind roots. So I'd like to submit an additional judgement submission for Sore Throat's "Inde$troy" to be removed from stenchcore and The Pit while staying in the other clan(s).

The terrifying beautiful bonus track in the original edition of Hands of Ash happens to be the best. Such a shame it's not on Spotify... For anyone looking for a heavy mix of Nine Inch Nails, Godflesh, and SLAB!:

Bonus epilogue part of this journey before really putting it to rest:

There's still one more heavy industrial metal trick up my sleeve... I like some of the 7 long progressive-length tracks in this Trust Obey album, though the album is overall in the same quality as SLAB's albums. For the few highlights here, "Hands of Fire" is a killer tune. "Hands of Glory" is also worth part of the CD's runtime. However, what's really the best, probably better than some of Godflesh songs, is the terrifying beautiful bonus track in the original edition, "Larvatus". It is the final destination for this industrial descent into Hell, where horns, trumpets, and synths flow over the moans of founder John Bergin. It's so cathartic and almost epic! A grand ending to a heavy experience. Such a shame it's not on Spotify... I guess you can say that Trust Obey is like a mix of Nine Inch Nails, Godflesh, and SLAB!, and it seems to have the same quality as the latter, a few winners here in an otherwise poor album. If you want the best of heavy industrial rock/metal, check out the highlights....

3/5

Also a new contender: Cemetary - Godless Beauty. Beautiful gothic metal mixed with heavy melodeath-doom. Think of this like the early 90s eras of Paradise Lost and Tiamat combined with a more melodic spice.

Yep. Power metal is often more melodic than heavy for the most part.

A couple more highlight tracks from the early industrial metal era of the late 80s:

The most metal offering from the masters of industrial music, released in 1992. Here are my thoughts:

Trent Reznor has been active for nearly 4 decades now, with his popularity growing with every release. He can be considered the industrial music king! His project Nine Inch Nails is the reason for his success and has changed their sound quite a lot. The 80s debut Pretty Hate Machine was known for its cheesy synths and beats, and torture-themed lyrics where vocal distortion dominates. Now what was the 90s like? Drastic new changes come aboard including higher prominence of guitar, screams, and some beautiful synth variety in contrast to the hideously great heaviness. Those can be found in the dark Downward Spiral and the melodic Fragile. The bridge of pleasure and pain continues to extend beyond, though some gaps between albums, such as between Pretty Hate Machine and The Downward Spiral, lasted around 5 to 6 years. Fortunately, to prevent any stagnation, the band cooked up an EP, Broken, an over half-hour industrial metal EP essential for Nine Inch Nails fans! This cauldron of catchy riff crunch marked the beginning of a dark decade. Here you can find two nice interludes, four original songs that display this heavier side of Nine Inch Nails, and two covers, one awesome and the other horrible. Most of the tracks would serve as the basis for one of the sickest, most disturbing short films you would ever find. The content is why that film never had a commercial release, that and they don't want it to overshadow the music. If the film is too much for you, just stick with the music. And definitely ditch that Pigface cover....

4/5

I plan to review one more album, Trust Obey's Hands of Ash, as you soon as this album gets added to the site, but for now, we've reached the end of my industrial metal early years voyage. That's all in this thread, folks!

Hardcore-speed industrial metal from the founder of Ministry and the ex-vocalist of Dead Kennedys:

Collaborative EP between Ministry's Al Jourgensen and the legendary Dead Kennedys vocalist Jello Biafra! Here are my thoughts:

When Lard's debut EP came out in 1989, it was indeed unexpected but not surprising for anyone who was already following Al Jourgensen's side projects like Pailhead with Minor Threat's Ian MacKaye. With Lard, Jourgensen and Biafra have teamed up for a project of ambitious progression. The Power of Lard is a 3-song EP that continues the industrial punk of Pailhead, in addition to Jourgensen's newfound metal influences and Biafra's punk stylings. While the sound is rooted in industrial metal, the title track has hardcore speed, "Hellfudge" is a country rock ramble, and "Time to Melt" is 32-minute long slow experimental industrial sludge epic. All in all, The Power of Lard is a pretty good EP, though it could do without "Hellfudge" and with "Time to Melt" being trimmed down a bit, but fans of Jello and Ministry will surely like it....

3.5/5

Coming up next: An EP that's not in the late 80s but still an essential part of one of the most popular industrial bands...

Here are the 10 heaviest albums I can think of that I enjoy and used to enjoy (including when I used to listen to a lot of melodic death metal):

1. Chelsea Grin - Eternal Nightmare (2018)

2. Godflesh - Streetcleaner (1989)

3. Converge - Jane Doe (2001)

4. Strapping Young Lad - Heavy as a Really Heavy Thing (1995)

5. Revocation - Chaos of Forms (2011)

6. Amon Amarth - Twilight of the Thunder God (2008)

7. Parasite Inc. - Time Tears Down (2013)

8. Arch Enemy - Burning Bridges (1999)

9. Lamb of God - Ashes of the Wake (2004)

10. Parkway Drive - Deep Blue (2010)

Good list, Rexorcist! I actually made my own list of clan challenges a long while back for the metal subgenres that don't have them, which I can send to you soon via PMs.

I don't know very many people who put Dragonforce in their big four, but I do admit that Inhuman Rampage is an underrated album.  Most power metal fanatics tend to see it as a change of pace from the more melodic sound just so they can say they're the fastest metal band on Earth.  Personally, I think there's still plenty of melody in that album.

Absolutely agreed! Inhuman Rampage is my favorite DragonForce album and the one that has the song that got me into metal, "Through the Fire and Flames".

An excellent loopy instrumental trip of early industrial metal:

The first metal album from one of the pioneers of industrial metal is a good part of my early years review tour! Here are my thoughts:

It is good to diversify every few years, whether it's your music taste or your band's style. After a couple synthpop and EBM albums, Al Jourgensen refreshed his Ministry project with a metalized sound. A hellbent atmosphere of vocal distortion, booming drums, and heavy keyboard-guitar hybrids fill the air, along with solid bass presence. These songs range from heavy to trippy, and many of them have a good amount of samples, a common industrial aspect, but what I prefer in industrial metal is savage percussive heaviness. Anyone with a slightly more open mind than mine should give The Land of Rape and Honey a try and love its mood. That mood is what Ministry needed to nail the metal path they would take. And you can hear the catchy riff power coming not just from the guitars. Then after you finish this, you can progress to the more metallic Mind....

4/5

Sanity Allergy is slightly weaker than Slab's debut with the only highlights for me being a couple upbeat tracks like this one:

The nearly unknown second and final album in the initial run of Slab!, Sanity Allergy is still not as exciting as I would hope for the first ever metalized industrial band. Sure there are heavier grooves and menacing slabs of beats, guitars, and vocals, but not a lot of it is good. I prefer the upbeat tracks in this one like the instrumental "Son of Sloth" with the sheer action to remind some of later electronic acts like The Crystal Method. The other upbeat highlight is the catchy "Cancer Beach" especially in the bridge, yet not a lot of other people have heard of it, let alone like it. Any industrial rock/metal fan can go ahead and try this album and look out for any chance of a new album coming out in the future. If you want just upbeat fun though, then just grab those two highlights and skip the rest.....

2.5/5

Industrial metal's perfect "Big Bang" moment:

The Sphere was created and turned on with the first ever album to fuse to industrial rock with metal. Slab's Descension is not really super good, but it's highly underrated compared to more popular bands like Ministry. Slab! seemed to have built their sound from industrial-ish rock bands Swans and Big Black. The Big Black influences are especially apparent in the opening track "Tunnel of Love", my favorite of the album and the perfect start to the industrial metal genre. However, the rest of the album isn't really as promising as the opener. Though "Dolores" and "The Animals" have great potential. One of the two bonus tracks "People Pie" is another great highlight despite a more poppy sound. All in all, a kinda poor album while a decently respectable beginning, for anyone up for a similar vibe to Godflesh and Trust Obey's Hands of Ash (might check out that album later)....

3/5

That's quite a lot to submit here, Rexorcist. How about we start with 10,000 Days and work our way down those releases one by one? Also, progressive metal is in The Infinite, not The Guardians, which is why I didn't say Fear Inoculum that's already in that clan.

That's interesting, Rexorcist. I used to listen to Solstafir before my move out of black metal (which they only had in their EP and debut), and Kold was my favorite album from them. This album's sound, while staying firmly in post-metal, I saw it as a mix of atmospheric and straightforward moods, though not as mellow as much of their subsequent material. Actually, now that I think about it, a few of these tracks are too straightforward to be worthy of the post-metal tag. I decided to revisit this album after nearly a year of abandoning it to see if it works well as just post-metal. So before I declare Judgement Submission Day on this album, here's how I would tag the genres in the 8 tracks:

1. 78 Days in the Desert - ambient instrumental post-metal with some heavy/black metal instrumentation

2. Köld - post-ish progressive metal

3. Pale Rider - straightforward post-metal similarly styled to the intro track

4. She Destroys Again - post-punk with instrumentation rising to heavy/black metal

5. Necrologue - stoner rock/post-metal

6. World Void of Souls - ambient instrumental post-rock later rising to metal (with some spoken narration)

7. Love is the Devil (and I am in Love) - straightforward post-ish hard rock

8. Goddess of the Ages - ambient/progressive/post-punk/metal/hard rock, basically summarizing all they had in the album

So this album is still post-metal in its majority, often mixing straightforward with ambient, and having influences from heavy metal, black metal, progressive metal, hard rock, and post-punk. Lots of rock and metal genres, though still firmly rooted in post-metal, so no need for any changes. Of course, everyone has a right to an opinion as long as it's accurate to the sound. Good to have you back in my life, Kold!

I decided to give this album a listen and a review for a couple reasons: 1. To tag along in the stenchcore ride despite this release sounding otherwise. 2. I'm a fan of Neurosis (both a bit of their crust punk era and a lot of their post-sludge material) and Godflesh, the latter's debut coming slightly after this offering from Saw Throat.

Sore Throat was known as a classic band in the crust/grindcore scene, delivering avalanche after avalanche of short fast tunes. Their over 40-minute single-track concept album Inde$troy is essentially an 8-part ambient industrial sludge epic with barely any of their crust/grind roots. And it's not the best album of that style either, but it's enjoyable in a few parts that I would specifically point out being the long ambient intro and outro, and the standard hardcore heaviness of the "Air" section. Basically those highlights take up half of the album with absolute power. The ambient sections work out as an easy-listening soundtrack to the apocalypse of a dystopian society. Yet the in-between-sounding parts don't do well for me. Anyway, if you're looking for an earlier, more ambient/industrial attempt at a grindcore band's sludge epic than Pig Destroyer's Natasha, here you go...

3/5

I always think of my own spirit animals to be the rabbit (representing my mild side) and the bear (representing my wild side). A few years before I joined the Metal Academy, I was a soft melodic bunny who enjoyed power metal and melodic progressive metal (the two genres you adore, Rexorcist), but thanks to a YouTube pen-pal of mine, I decided to transform into a metalcore/extreme progressive metal-loving bear. Since joining the Metal Academy, a few of the other members encouraged to bring back that melodic power metal bunny side of me, but after a couple years, that ultimately did not work out. I decided to convert my bunny side into alternative metal, which I've actually tested out a few bands of that genre before beginning my true metal interest with power metal.

Anyway, so my spirit animal for The Gateway is the rabbit for hopping into wider influences. My spirit animal for the Revolution is the bear because of how wild and rebellious they can be. And my spirit animal for The Sphere would a cyborg rabbit-bear hybrid. I agree with the spirit animal ideas for your clans, Rexorcist, those animals fit them quite well! Now what would the remaining 3 clans' spirit animals be? Probably sloth for The Fallen, lion for The Horde, and raven for The North. I don't know, we'll let members of those 3 remaining class decide what their spirit animals would be...

Good luck, Daniel!

1. Gateway playlist - 4.5/5 (number of songs commented: ALL 21)

2. Guardians playlist - 4.5/5 (number of songs commented: 6)

3. Infinite playlist - 4.5/5 (number of songs commented: 11)

4. Revolution playlist - 4/5 (number of songs commented: ALL 30)

4. Sphere playlist - 4/5 (number of songs commented: ALL 27)

So far, I've only commented on 5 tracks in the Guardians playlist and 11 tracks in the Infinite playlist, but for the other 3 of my own clans I've listened to the entire playlists! I'm grateful to Saxy, Xephyr, and Daniel for their playlist works. I really dig the Gateway playlist made by Saxy and the Revolution and Sphere playlists made by me. I recommend them to any fan of those respective genres and anyone who isn't into those genres but wants to get into a great start in enjoying them. Thanks, Daniel, for accepting these playlists, and good work all!

THE GATEWAY: Northlane - "Obsidian" (2022) 5/5

THE INFINITE: Devin Townsend - "Deconstruction" (2011) 5/5

THE PIT: Machine Head - "The Blackening" (2007) 3.5/5

THE REVOLUTION: Atka - "Untitled Album" (2018) 2.5/5

THE SPHERE: Deathstars - "Termination Bliss (2006) 5/5

All 3 of my feature release submissions; Northlane's Obsidian, Devin Townsend's Deconstruction, and Deathstars' Termination Bliss, all each receive a perfect 5 stars, and I would recommend them to fans of their respective genres. I also reviewed Machine Head's The Blackening two years ago, and I stand by my 3.5-star rating. Daniel's Revolution feature release submission was too intense for me to go beyond 2.5 stars, but it's good to see him having a blast with that release. Glad to see some positive reaction for all those releases! It's been a great month. Keep up the good work on the feature releases, all! I look forward to more...

I listen to more of tech-thrash than conventional thrash while enjoying a small bit of the latter, so this would be my personal Big 4: Annihilator, Sadus, Coroner, Dark Angel

Btw, I have to ask, is there a third party in which the genre tags are taken from, and if so, is it Rateyourmusic?

Yep, that's exactly correct, Rexorcist.

Welcome, Rexorcist! Awesome avatar!

OK, so the industrial metal tag for this album is quite a stretch, but a few songs are close to cyber metal in the synths, and I've already started expanding my cyber metal knowledge with that part of the Sphere playlists.

Interesting judgement submissions, Daniel! I kind of think of the electronic experimentation as somewhere along the lines of synth-dance-y industrial in some songs, so it's close to both industrial metal and trance metal. And I can hear where you got the idea of this album being melodic metalcore, with a great amount of technical riffs, breakdowns, and screamed vocals that throwback to their earlier albums. So I might object to removing the album from The Sphere but understand its potential in The Revolution. Let's see how things go with your submissions...

Californian groove metal/

This one helps the album become more interesting. The vocals and riffs are much better and worth listening to than a few other songs. Not the best home-run but a great step up.

I am quite used to a bit of naughtiness, but when the lyrics consist of vulgar verses and an emo-sounding chorus, for me it doesn't sound like they're taken too seriously and ends up coming out as a stinker. That and the mediocre riffs and vocals in this song and a couple others show that groove metal is not what I'm in the mood for, though the other half of the album is enjoyable.

Here are some Spotify playlists I've made compiling songs from the RYM popular 20 of progressive metal and metalcore, the two favorite metal genres of mine that have reached over 200. Enjoy!

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1wU8Mic7e8a3PaH2LbIczy

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5oWvTIQn3vVYpwHkChoWRb

Once again the least popular track on an album appeals to me the most. Avant-garde progressive metal from Canada.

A stomping highlight reminding me of the pandemic we were all stuck in. I like the operatic vocals by Floor Jansen (ex-After Forever, Nightwish), though barely working here.

I'm glad to distance myself away from symphonic metal. This cheesy synth-orchestral sh*t intro doesn't belong in any melodic deathcore album, not even this album in which the rest isn't as good as most other Revolution releases I've heard:

Top-notch raw math/metalcore brutality from the only well-done song of this EP that's otherwise deathcore/melodeath with messed-up aspects:

A poor sh*tty example of thrashy melodeath-metalcore, missing most of the fast speed and sharp changes, while only the intense vocals save the day:

Good riffs, great screams, and brilliant breakdowns occur in one of only two highlights of this split EP (both only on Caliban's side):

Here are my sneak peek submissions for the September Sphere playlist (now at 4 of them):

Deathstars - "Termination Bliss" (3:43) from Termination Bliss (2006)

Godflesh - "Unworthy" (7:13) from Merciless (1994)

Mushroomhead - "Simple Survival" (3:15) from Savior Sorrow (2006)

Samael - "Samael" (3:58) from Hegemony (2017)

Total length: 18:09

Here are my sneak peek submissions for the September Revolution playlist:

Asking Alexandria - "Don't Pray for Me" (4:40) from From Death to Destiny (2013)

Demon Hunter - "We Don't Care" (3:37) from True Defiance (2012)

Earth Crisis - "The Wrath of Sanity" (3:51) from Destroy the Machines (1995)

From Autumn to Ashes - "Milligram Smile" (3:35) from The Fiction We Live (2003)

Silent Planet - "Afterdusk" (3:55) from When the End Began (2018)

Veil of Maya - "It's Not Safe to Swim Today" (2:43) from The Common Man's Collapse (2008)

Within the Ruins - "Roads" (6:24) from Invade (2010)

Total length: 28:45

And since Daniel skipped out on his monthly Revolution playlist submission for September, I decided to add an optional bonus sneak peek submission. If anyone else is up to submitting their own track suggestion, I can remove my bonus and either put it in the September playlist anyway or a different month. So here's my bonus submission:

Coalesce - "Simulcast" (4:27) from Coalesce (1995)

Similar track to a couple months ago, different demo version, still an incredible song I can't resist adding.

Since Devin Townsend's Deconstruction is not available on Spotify, I decided that my submissions for the September Infinite playlist would be dedicated to the bands whose vocalists/guitarists guest appeared in that album, so here they are:

Between the Buried and Me - "(B) The Decade of Statues" (5:20) from Colors (2007)

Cynic - "Elements and Their Inhabitants" (3:09) from Ascension Codes (2021)

Gojira - "L'Enfant Sauvage" (4:17) from L'Enfant Sauvage (2012) (even though the original album isn't available on Spotify, this song can be found in "XXX: Three Decades of Roadrunner" and "100 Greatest Metal" compilations, so either one of those will do)

Meshuggah - "Born in Dissonance" (4:34) from The Violent Sleep of Reason (2016)

Opeth - "To Bid You Farewell" (10:54) from Morningrise (1996)

Total length: 28:14