Sonny's Forum Replies

Hi Ben. Could you add the Lord Vicar / Funeral Circle split EP from 2011, please.

Have you ever checked out 2001's Endtyme, Daniel. I think it is their doomiest album after Forest of Equilibrium and may be more in line with what you are looking for from the band post-debut.

Hi Daniel. A couple for October if you want them:

Acid Mammoth - "Black Rites" (from "Acid Mammoth", 2017)
Amenra - "Razoreater" (from "Mass IIII", 2008)

Let's see,  first four Metallica albums, Sepultura with Schizophrenia through Arise, Drudkh from Autumn Auroa through Blood in Our Wells. 

Ulcerate are still on a golden run on their last four albums.

Maiden for me would also match Ben's opinion and I would also go with that Opeth run too.

I would throw in Judas Priest from Sad Wings of Destiny through Stained Class.

Good shout on Drudkh, Vinny.

Nice call on Gorgoroth's first three, Karl. I am one of the few who also loves Destroyer as well, so that's a four album run!

Hi Ben, could you add Sweden's Church of Void, including their split album "Coalition of the Anathematized" which is a split between Cardinals Folly / Church of Void / Acolytes of Moros. Thanks once more.

Thanks once again for adding my many requests, Ben.

Hi Ben, could you add Sweden's Church of Void, including their split album "Coalition of the Anathematized" which is a split between Cardinals Folly / Church of Void / Acolytes of Moros. Thanks once more.

I'm really sorry to keep issuing so many requests, but could you add Liverpool's Black Magician please Ben?

Hi Ben. Could you please add Black Capricorn's 2022 album "Cult of Blood"?

One more Ben, could you please add US doom/stoner/psych three-piece Blackout.

A couple of early, cynical attempts on the pop charts from Judas Priest - "Take on the World" and "United" really tested my loyalty to the band back in the day and still piss me off even now. I think I hate those two tracks even more than anything Ripper Owens inflicted upon us.

Iron Maiden - "Bring Your Daughter to the Slaughter" (from "No Prayer for the Dying", 1990)

Absolutely. Although shouldn't that be "Bring Your Dowter to the Slowter" - a serious accent malfunction from Bruce on  that one I think!

One of my NWOBHM favourites and a band I always loved seeing live:

My Top 20 Angel Witch tracks:

1. Angel of Death (Angel Witch)
2. Baphomet (Metal for Muthas)
3. Gorgon (Angel Witch)
4. Don't Turn Your Back (Angel of Light)
5. Atlantis (Angel Witch)
6. Confused (Angel Witch)
7. White Witch (Angel Witch)
8. Free Man (Angel Witch)
9. Angel Witch (Angel Witch)
10. Sorcerers (Angel Witch)

11. Geburah (As Above, So Below)
12. Condemned (Angel of Light)
13. Evil Games (Screamin' n' Bleedin')
14. Death From Andromeda (Angel of Light)
15. Sweet Danger (Angel Witch)
16. Angel of Light (Angel of Light)
17. Flight Nineteen (Sweet Danger / Flight Nineteen)
18. Devil's Tower (Angel Witch)
19. Dead Sea Scrolls (As Above, So Below)
20. Witching Hour (As Above, So Below)

Heavily dominated by their superb debut LP.

What you gonna do when a band issues an album so much better than the rest of their discography?

Another favourite band of mine, Sweden's Grand Magus:

1. Hammer of the North (Hammer of the North)
2. Valhalla Rising (The Hunt)
3. Son of the Last Breath (The Hunt)
4. Mountains Be My Throne (Hammer of the North)
5. Iron Hand (The Hunt)
6. At Midnight They'll Get Wise (Hammer of the North)
7. Starlight Slaughter (The Hunt)
8. I, The Jury (Hammer of the North)
9. Legion (Grand Magus)
10. Sword of the Ocean (The Hunt)

11. The Hunt (The Hunt)
12. Black Sails (Hammer of the North)
13. Storm King (The Hunt)
14. Northern Star (Hammer of the North)
15. Like the Oar Strikes the Water (Iron Will)
16. Silver Moon (The Hunt)
17. Ravens Guide Our Way (Hammer of the North)
18. Draksådd (The Hunt)
19. Spear Thrower (Wolf God)
20. The Naked and the Dead (Triumph and Power)

A band who are incredibly consistent and deserve more acclaim.

Hi Ben. Sorry, a couple more requests for you:

Sweden's Anguish and a band local to me, UK's Space Witch.

Thanks...

Does anyone have any other examples to recommend of the raw second wave sound I may not have heard, because revisiting this and the other early Darkthrone albums has reminded me just how much I really love this shit?!

Have you tried Judas Iscariot on for size Sonny? He had a similar sound to classic Darkthrone.

I don't think I have ever heard him, so will definitely check him out later. Thanks for the rec,  Daniel.

...checked out his Heaven in Flames album and I really enjoyed it in it's own right even though the synths made it more polished-sounding than I was looking for. The penultimate track, "Spill the Blood of the Lamb" was more in line with my expectations and is my favourite here. I'll try his earlier stuff out and see if it is more in the vein of "Spill the Blood of the Lamb". He does have exactly the kind of cracked, evil-sounding voice I love in my black metal, though and his vocals really hit the spot.

Checked out Judas Iscariot's first album, The Cold Earth Slept Below... and even though it is a wildly inconsistent release, it does have exactly the vibe I was looking for. For what it's worth, I think Heaven in Flames is the better album, but the debut does hit that raw black metal spot more effectively.

On a tangentially related topic, which album, in your opinions, towers over a band's discography. Obviously I am referring to bands with a fairly extensive number of studio albums (say six or more). I would suggest Diamond Head's "Lightning to the Nations" stands head and shoulders above the rest of their fairly mediocre discography.

This one's an easy one for me. Slayer's run of "Reign in Blood" into "South of Heaven" into "Seasons in the Abyss" was comfortably the most life-changing run of metal albums in my life thus far.

That's a good call too. You could even throw in Hell Awaits and make it four.

The longest, best run, however, must be Maiden from Killers to Somewhere in Time making five in all, although Sabbath from Paranoid to Sabotage were pretty good as well.

Does anyone have any other examples to recommend of the raw second wave sound I may not have heard, because revisiting this and the other early Darkthrone albums has reminded me just how much I really love this shit?!

Have you tried Judas Iscariot on for size Sonny? He had a similar sound to classic Darkthrone.

I don't think I have ever heard him, so will definitely check him out later. Thanks for the rec,  Daniel.

...checked out his Heaven in Flames album and I really enjoyed it in it's own right even though the synths made it more polished-sounding than I was looking for. The penultimate track, "Spill the Blood of the Lamb" was more in line with my expectations and is my favourite here. I'll try his earlier stuff out and see if it is more in the vein of "Spill the Blood of the Lamb". He does have exactly the kind of cracked, evil-sounding voice I love in my black metal, though and his vocals really hit the spot.

Darkthrone - Transilvanian Hunger (1994)

If I was asked to name the one album that epitomises black metal for me, then Transilvanian Hunger would be my reply. For this, Darkthrone's fourth full-length and the third instalment in their "unholy trilogy", Fenriz wrote all the music for the album and performed and recorded all the instruments himself on four-track in his home studio setup, suitably named Necrohell Studio by the band. He also wrote the lyrics for the first four tracks, with Varg Vikernes contributing lyrics for tracks five to eight. At this point Darkthrone were a bit up in the air as guitarist Zephyrous had left after the release of Under A Funeral Moon and Fenriz and Nocturno Culto weren't even living in the same town. So Fenriz wrote and recorded the album on his own and then sent it to NC and asked him if he wanted to perform the vocals which, obviously, he did.

The first thing that strikes the listener is the sound of the album. The production is the absolute dictionary definition of the necro sound that so many black metal bands have striven towards. The raw, stripped-back sound has a savage iciness that, for my money, has often been copied, but has never been equalled. The decaying frostiness of the production isn't all there is to Transilvanian Hunger however, because this is not only the finest collection of black metal riffs ever committed to disc, it may well be the greatest album of metal riffs of any colour, full-stop. Fenriz' genius here is in writing riffs that are simple, memorably melodic and, yes, even catchy, but he delivers them in such a way, mainly thanks to the production, that they take on an inherent "evilness" that epitomises early second wave black metal better than anything else I have heard. Another small, but very clever, touch is how there is a degree of tension built by the pauses between tracks which are just a bit too long and discomforting. When it comes down to it, Transilvanian Hunger is quite simple. There is very little by way of tempo variation and the drums and bass don't do anything fancy, no complicated bass runs or drum fills are required because the riffs and to a certain extent the production, are the real focus here. Of course, Nocturno Culto puts in a great turn on vocals and his performance perfectly complements the tone of the instrumentation, exuding evil contempt with every cracked, sneering shriek.

The album was not without controversy upon it's release however. The original version's back cover sporting the legend "True Norwegian Black Metal" also had the expression "Norsk Arisk Black Metal" ("Norwegian Aryan black metal"). The band also issued a very unfortunate press release concerning the album, containing a phrase I have no intention of repeating here. Thankfully, Fenriz quickly repudiated any connection to nazi philosophy and has since distanced himself even further by calling these comments disgusting and pointing out that many of us are assholes when young and say and do things we are later not proud of. The penultimate track, As Flittermice as Satans Spys also ends with the backwards-masked message proclaiming "In the name of God, let the churches burn", which I am sure wouldn't have gone down well in Norway at the time.

All this adds up to an album that can rightfully claim a place as a truly important release in the history of metal and is, for me, the most succinct expression of black metal's second wave, standing like a towering giant over the eviscerated corpses of any and all pretenders.

5/5

Does anyone have any other examples to recommend of the raw second wave sound I may not have heard, because revisiting this and the other early Darkthrone albums has reminded me just how much I really love this shit?!

I am a big fan of "Hope Finally Died..." myself Daniel and have long been trying to obtain an original copy. The only problem is, there are currently a couple for sale on Discogs and they are both going for over £ 250!! Insane.

Hi Ben. Another couple of requests:

Apostle of Solitude / Rituals of the Oak / The Flight of Sleipnir three-way split from 2011 released on Eyes Like Snow.

Also the spanish doom band Vøid and their sole 2014 s/t album.

Thanks a lot in advance.

Hi again, Ben. I'm not sure what your pollicy for this is, but would it be possible to add Chad Davis' (Hour of 13) project The Ritualist and their sole EP, Hell's Doom Eternal. It was released in 2016 as a cassette-only demo called Hell's Doom, but it was given a proper CD release the following year on I Hate records with an additional track and renamed Hell's Doom Eternal. If not then that's fine , but this is the only one in my Fallen collection not now on the Academy database and as a dedicated completist I would appreciate it's addition very much!

Hi Ben. I have been cataloguing my physical collection recently and have noticed a few omissions. Could you add the following bands please (sorry there's so many at once):

Begotten (NY, USA)

Blizaro (USA)

Church of Lies (UK)

Condenados (Chile)

Crone (Australia)

Dea Marica (UK)

Demon Lung (USA)

Doomster Reich (Poland)

Electric Priestess (UK)

Goya (USA),

Kroh (UK)

Of Spire & Throne (UK)

Old Witch (Canada)

Othuum (Germany)

Prophets of Saturn (UK)

Spirit Descent (Germany)

Spirit Division(USA)

Talisman Stone (unknown)

Your wish is my command. All done!

Thanks so much, Ben, for such an impressively speedy and comprehensive response.

Hi Ben. I have been cataloguing my physical collection recently and have noticed a few omissions. Could you add the following bands please (sorry there's so many at once):

Begotten (NY, USA)

Blizaro (USA)

Church of Lies (UK)

Condenados (Chile)

Crone (Australia)

Dea Marica (UK)

Demon Lung (USA)

Doomster Reich (Poland)

Electric Priestess (UK)

Goya (USA),

Kroh (UK)

Of Spire & Throne (UK)

Old Witch (Canada)

Othuum (Germany)

Prophets of Saturn (UK)

Spirit Descent (Germany)

Spirit Division(USA)

Talisman Stone (unknown)

Another couple of suggestions for September if needed, Daniel:

Ponte del Diavolo - "Covenant" (from "Fire Blades From the Tomb", 2024)

Ufomammut - "Crookhead" (from "Hidden", 2024)

I do usually check them out Ben, but it wouldn't be any great hardship to me if you stopped posting them.

Do you mind adding french doomers The Bottle Doom Lazy Band please Ben.

Certainly Sonny. I'd be happy to take anywhere up to forty minutes given that there's only the two of us (i.e. Vinny & I) contributing to The Fallen playlists at present.

OK, Daniel. I have been trying to catch up on some of the latest doom metal releases over the last couple of days and there are still a few I want to check out, so if I come across anything decent I will post it here.

Hi Daniel, I have a few suggestions for September if you want them:

Arð - "He Saw Nine Winters" (from "Untouched by Fire", 2024)

The Bottle Doom Lazy Band - "The Dead Can't Lose Again" (from "Blood for the Bloodking", 2008)

Scald - "Far Northern Corner" (from "Ancient Doom Metal", 2024)

You, of course, can say whatever you want, Rex, I just want no part of it anymore, as is my right. I'm not "scolding" anyone - get on with it, good luck, I'm gone!

War metal fans need taste...

Meaning what?

That was half sarcasm, but there's also a reason I feel the album's overrated.  It seems to me that the only thing these people who love that album are focusing on is the level of brutality.  It's like songwriting, recording quality and musicianship don't exist.  I mean, I love brutality as well, but no matter exactly how different one music forumer or critic might judge things from another person, good judgement should look at things from even more angles.

The simple fact is, I enjoy that album and the effect it has upon me. I don't have to justify that to anyone and throwing insults around because you disagree is disrespectful to the opinions of others. All this does is reminds me why I tend to avoid internet forums, so fuck it, I don't need your bad vibes, so I'll keep my opinions to myself.

War metal fans need taste...

Meaning what?

OK, I'll play along:

1. Darkthrone - A Blaze in the Northern Sky

2. Burzum - Burzum

3. Incantation - Onward to Golgotha

4. Fleshcrawl - Descend Into the Absurd

5. Brutal Truth - Extreme Conditions Demand Extreme Responses

6. Megadeth - Countdown to Extinction

7. Baphomet - The Dead Shall Inherit

8. Emperor - Wrath of the Tyrant

9. Epidemic - Decameron

10. Melvins - Lysol

**Hand up** I really like "Fallen Angel of Doom...." So sue me! Seriously though, you cannot talk war metal and not see the influence this had throughout the genre. FAoD is one of the easiest picks on the list.

If we're talking Immortal then, even though personally I slightly prefer Battles in the North over Pure Holocaust, it feels like PH is the more essential and is generally regarded by most fans as the better album, so I would say go with that if any.

For July, Daniel:

Adramelech - "As the Gods Succumbed" (from "Psychostasia", 1996)

The Chasm - "Storm of Revelations" (from "Procession to the Infraworld", 2000)

Mithras - "Behind the Shadows" (from "Behind the Shadows Lie Madness", 2007) 

Pungent Stench - "Games of Humiliation" (from "Been Caught Buttering", 1991)

Ulcerate - "Drawn Into the Next Void" (from "Stare Into Death and Be Still", 2020)

Unleashed - "Before the Creation of Time" (from "Where No Life Dwells", 1991)

I did have a longer list, but I just noticed you already have Autopsy nominated, so have removed them from mine. Sorry I'm so late again.

Late to the party (as usual - well the fact that I am even bothering nowadays to post is an improvement for me) but have a hectic weekend ahead so a brief dismantle of this largely baffling list.

Marduk - Heaven Shall Burn ... When We Are Gathered - at the risk of incurring the wrath of Sonny, I would argue Marduk have no "essential" releases

That statement certainly wouldn't anger me, Vinny. Yeah, sure, I love Panzer Division Marduk, but I would never champion the Swedes as being groundbreaking or essential listening, in common with many other black metal releases I love. In fact, I don't even know how qualified I am to add too much here as I am the first to admit that I like what I like and I don't actively seek out particularly ground-breaking stuff.

Not one of my favourite styles, but Emperor are so far ahead of the rest it's ridiculous and "In the Nightside Eclipse" is indispensible as far as symphonic BM goes. I can't really say too much about Dimmu Borgir as I listened to a couple of their albums ages ago and concluded they were nothing to do with me. I guess Cradle did reach a certain level of popularity that would see their videos on music TV stations a fair bit, so would presumably spread their influence. I don't follow this sub-genre closely enough to offer up any alternative releases for consideration, so am happy to go along with Ben's shortlist.

If you're going for most influencial then you have to include Black Metal. Which IS a first-wave black metal album, and it gave the sub-genre it's name. Quite a lot of the first and second wave artists site it as a primary influence. 

Remember the first wave was little bit more relaxed in it's parameters than the second wave. Mercyful Fate is also considered a first-wave black metal band, and they are farther away than Venom from what became the "pure" template.

Quoted ZeroSymbolic7188

The difference is that the list is most influential black metal releases, not releases that were influential on black metal. If it was the latter, then Hellhammer, Mercyful Fate and Venom would be top of the list.

I'm sure you can find references online to Venom being labelled black metal (you can find anything online), but if the album doesn't actually contain the major components of black metal, then I see no reason to label it that way.

I think the "first wave" of black metal bands are in a similar situation to the hard rock bands of the mid to late-70's who were labelled heavy metal at the time, but who have been left behind by a refining of the definition of what constitutes heavy metal. The same has happened with black metal as it's definition has been refined within a specific set of parameters. 

Remember the first wave was little bit more relaxed in it's parameters than the second wave. Mercyful Fate is also considered a first-wave black metal band, and they are farther away than Venom from what became the "pure" template.

Not here they aren't!

Absolutely agree with "Storm of the Light's Bane" as almost everyone who plays melo-black seems to quote that album as an influence.

I am not nearly steeped enough in the Hellenic scene to gainsay your pick there, Ben, so will go along with you.

Windir's Arntor is, again, an album many quote when talking about melodic black influence, so will tick that box too.

I would just throw a more recent release into the ring which has seen an awful lot of bands trying to emulate it and that is Mgla's "Exercises in Futility". It's not a release I am a particular flag-waver for, but I have seen a lot of bands and reviewers referencing it in the context of modern melodic black metal and it seems to have been a particular touchpoint for a lot of younger bands.

I think it is important to emphasise the necessity to make any lists relate to the most influential rather than the best of a genre. Let's face it, anyone can do lists of their favourites, or what they consider to be the best and they are ten a penny on the internet, but to aspire to produce lists of the most infliential, although still difficult to establish, is a  more objective search, particularly if produced collaboratively.

It all depends on how you define Essential. Does that mean the best albums that everyone should hear, or does it mean the most important albums that either formed an important aspect of black metal or pushed it in a new (and also important) direction? Without defining that, it's difficult to assess.

The inclusion of albums like The Principle of Evil Made Flesh and Burzum's debut suggests it's based on importance / influence, but then I fail to see how Sons of Northern Darkness, Rebel Extravaganza or Sworn to the Dark could be considered particularly ground-breaking or important.

Hmmm...I might throw together my own personal top 25 most important black metal list and see what it looks like.

Maybe a fun project would be for the members of each clan to collaborate and produce a Metal Academy Top 25 Most Essential Releases list for the respective clan's parent genres. That way we have no need to concern ourselves with other publications speculative lists.

Anyone compiling a list of the essential albums of a genre as wide-ranging and with such a storied history as black metal is setting themselves up for a fall. I am unfamiliar with the mag in question, so I don't know what their expertise is, but I would say that for a magazine they have made a decent effort. Nods to Hellhammer and Bathory are obligatory I would say, as are Darkthrone, Burzum, Dissection, Emperor, Mayhem and Ulver. Satyricon, Dimmu Borgir, Cradle of Filth and Satyricon maybe not so much. Behemoth are much better-known in the death metal field and I love that Gorgoroth album, but I'm not sure if it's essential in this context. 

Personally I think WitTR or Panopticon should have had a look in (but probably not both) and possibly Blut aus Nord. Deafheaven are maybe ok as they opened up the way for Blackgaze, even though the style doesn't appeal to me much personally and Sigh were quite influential. Watain seem to be well-thought of, but I haven't ever really heard what makes that the case. DsO and Enslaved have both earned their places.

No War Metal is unforgivable, though. If you're gonna let blackgaze represent then war metal deserves a place at the table.

Overall, I would give the list a 7/10, although I'm sure there are plenty of trve kvltists gnashing their teeth and hammering their keyboards in frustration!

Definitely with you regarding samples, Karl, unless done very well.. and yes, those "sex-act" vocalisations are just plain embarrassing - as is screaming accompanied by the sound of power tools.

Hello Sonny, Ben & Andi, it's a pleasure to meet you.

Zachary, you'll be pleased to hear that I gave The Call of the Wretched Sea a spin and I must say, I dig it quite a bit. Since I'm new to the band (and fairly new to funeral doom in general), it's going to take a fair amount of time & subsequent listens before I fully wrap my head around it. That said, I'm genuinely impressed with how cohesively they managed to execute the theme and the lyrics are top tier. What's more, I can already say that I have two personal highlights: The Sermon (when he goes My song forever shall record that terrible, that joyful hour... - man, shivers down my spine!) & Ahab's Oath (this one is soul-crushingly heavy and i really like the synth parts here). Curious to hear which one is your favorite.

That's a great place to start with Ahab, Karl, and with funeral doom in general - definitely one of my favourite FD releases.

I was in a gaming club back in the Eighties playing Iron Crown's Rolemaster system which I much preferred to D&D. I think I may still have some of the lore books in the attic somewhere.

Mark definitely sounded better than Barnes.

Mark is absolutely frothing that you just said that. His most major influence/idol is 1991-92 Chris Barnes.

To transcend one's idols is surely the aim of all artists. Believe me, I genuinely think he's better.

I've always found that the fact that I was already a Cannibal Corpse fan before the release of "Tomb of the Mutilated" gives me a slightly different perspective to many people. It was the record that converted a lot of the kids in my area over to death metal & that certainly did my band Neuropath a lot of favours as the only more brutal death metal band that existed in Sydney back in 1993. I don't think there's any doubt that it was the shock-factor that was responsible for Cannibal Corpse's rise as, despite it being a solid enough release from a purely musical point of view, there were frankly more classic death metal records out there. There can be no denying how fun it was to listen to as a young fella though & it certainly ticked the brutality box that was so much of a passion for me at the time. Some of that gloss has definitely been taken off it over time though & I struggle with Paul's drumming in particular these days as he really does only have three beats that he repeats over & over again with one of those admittedly having invented the double-kick-driven blast-beat technique that would become common-place in the scene almost immediately afterwards. These days I find myself preferring records like "The Bleeding", "Evisceration Plague", "Kill" & "Butchered At Birth" over "Tomb of the Mutilated" but I'll always have a soft spot for it. Neuropath was heavily influenced by early Cannibal Corpse & inevitably always seemed to be associated with them too, perhaps unsurprisingly given our early lyrical direction. We actually played a cover version of "Hammer Smashed Face" at the end of a couple of shows in order to satisfy the repeated crowd requests.

But Daniel, Neuropath were better than Cannibal Corpse. If I had heard your Nefarious Vivisection demo back in the day, instead of this or whatever CC album it was, then my whole death metal adventure may have begun much sooner. I would have liked to have heard your version of Hammer Smashed Face, though. Mark definitely sounded better than Barnes.

Hey Karl. Great to make your acquaintance. Hope you enjoy the site. Feel free to post any questions you may have - we're a pretty chilled bunch here, so dive in!