Judgement Submissions

Thanks, Daniel!

Thanks, Daniel!

As with Dokken's 1985 third album "Under Lock & Key", 1987's "Back For The Attack" possesses an obvious metal edge but whether it should qualify for metal status really comes down to whether you consider the glam metal subgenre to sit below a hard rock or a metal part genre because this is clearly a glam metal release with only three of four genuine heavy metal songs out of the thirteen on offer. As with a lot of glam metal, the guitar work is certainly metal-based but the vocals & rhythm section sit in commercial hard rock territory. Here at the Academy we've always left glam metal for the hard rockers so for that reason I'd like to see "Back For The Attack" removed from The Guardians & placed under Non-Metal.

This nomination has been posted in the Hall of Judgement.

I can't, Daniel. I'm no longer in The Guardians.

Vinnie Moore's 1986 debut album really isn't as neoclassically structured as it's made out to be. It's much more of a progressive heavy metal record with classical influence only sporadically popping up in the solos which doesn't constitute the requirement for an additional genre in my opinion. For this reason I'd like to see 'Mind's Eye' removed from the Neoclassical Metal genre while maintaining its position under Heavy Metal.

This nomination has been posted in the Hall of Judgement.

I completely agree with your assessment here Sonny. "The Cage" is simply a hard rock record as far as I can see & not a very good one either it has to be said. It should never have been drawn in under the NWOBHM banner in the first place in my opinion.

This nomination has been posted in the Hall of Judgement.

No it isn't a very good record at all. I really dislike AOR and this has all the hallmarks of that excremental genre. In fact, thinking about it again has pissed me off so much I have had to go back and dock it another half a point!

I completely agree with your assessment here Sonny. "Firepower" is a combination of progressive rock & hard rock as far as I can see & it should never have been drawn in under the NWOBHM banner in the first place. I do quite like it though.

This nomination has been posted in the Hall of Judgement.

I gave this Alcest album some listening and a review a couple years ago, and I still remember Les voyages de l'âme having some great blackgaze dominance. The black metal aggression in the guitar distortion and grim vocals is in smooth balance with the shoegaze atmosphere of uplifting melody and tranquil beauty. I made a judgement submission similar to this for the album, but somehow it didn't get through. I'm glad the album is in the Hall now, so thanks for that, Daniel.

Revisiting "Trilogy" has reignited my feelings around many of the releases we have tagged as Neoclassical Metal in that this record is really just a Heavy Metal release with neoclassical guitar solos which doesn't constitute a separate genre in my opinion. By comparison, Yngwie's debut album "Rising Force" utilizes classical structures within the song writing which produces a much more compelling argument. Therefore, I'd like to see "Trilogy" removed from the Neoclassical Metal genre while maintaining its Heavy Metal one.

This nomination has been posted in the Hall of Judgement.

Dokken's most highly regarded album is an interesting one because, while it undoubtedly offers a fair bit of metal in the guitar work & includes a couple of genuine heavy metal tracks, the vast majority of the tracklisting falls into the glam metal category which we regard as a subgenre of hard rock. For this reason, I'd like to see 'Under Lock & Key' removed from The Guardians & placed into the Non-Metal category.

This nomination has been posted in the Hall of Judgement.

I just gave this album some listening and a review to revisit this live album mainly consisting of songs from their best era, and to celebrate the release of Kamelot's new album with a blast to the past. Similarly to Angra's Aurora Consurgens, many songs show the more progressive side of the band with complex riffing and soloing that occur more in the songs from Epica and The Black Halo than in their earlier albums like Karma, and more diverse structure. So I'll definitely be giving this Hall entry a YES vote.

As if I needed any confirmation of Slayer's demise from thrash metal legends, Repentless more than nails the coffin lid shut.  Andi's right to my ears, this album soon degenerates into groove metal with some knock off Machine Head riffs and structures littered all over the place.

Isen Torr's sole release is certainly one epic as fuck record. So much so that it leaves me baffled as to how the band have avoided the power metal tag. There's obviously a crap-tonne of Iron Maiden worship going on in the galloping rhythms & guitar harmonies but the consistently high tempos, epic atmosphere & metal-for-metals-sake attitude sit further towards power metal than they do traditional heavy metal in my opinion so I'd like to see "Mighty & Superior" added to the Power Metal genre on top of its Heavy Metal tag.

If this poll is successful then I may opt to raise another Hall entry to have Heavy Metal removed from the release too.

This nomination has been posted in the Hall of Judgement.

Yeah, it's an interesting discussion & there's no right answer of course. We're a metal website though so we don't offer rock tags like Stoner Rock or Heavy Psych. It's either metal or it's not & if it's not then the release in question likely wouldn't be included on the site at all unless the associated band had other releases that were legitimate metal. In this case too, we have a release where the vinyl editions of the album don't include the bonus track so I think it's best not to take that track into account when discussing the album's metal credentials. When you take that track out of the equation then the four metal tracks included amount to about 23 minutes of the total 42 minute run time which puts it into metal territory in my opinion. But this is why we have the Hall of Judgement so our clan members are free to express their opinions & my opinion is worth no more than that of any other member of The Fallen.

While those two songs you mentioned are indeed the two most metal songs on the album, I find a couple other tracks like "Simple Design" and "Breakdown" to be closer to the more conventional alt-metal or at least hard rock. But looking back on it, I guess you're right, Daniel. The post-grunge/alt-rock sound of the album has much more in common with Nickelback and Three Days Grace than it does with Tool and Korn. YES vote coming up for your entry!

What's interesting is, I found out that their first two releases (their 2001 self-titled EP and their debut album Saturate) have the alternative metal tag in RYM valid enough to be in this site, so I asked Ben to add them to the site in the Requests for The Gateway Releases thread. Once they get added in, I'll give Saturate some listening and a review to see if it belongs in the clan. I won't review the EP though, since it's basically demo versions of 5 of the tracks from Saturate (a similar technique to Amaranthe's EP and debut album).

This nomination has been posted in the Hall of Judgement.

This nomination has been posted in the Hall of Judgement as two separate entries.

Thotcrime's 'ønyøurcømputer' is a release that takes the sounds of The Revolution & injects them with a raw infusion of grindcore & electronics to give it an additional dose of chaos. There’s certainly not enough grindcore on offer to be able to justify Grindcore being claimed as a primary genre though in my opinion & I’d suggest that the Mathcore subgenre all that’s required here. There are a few hints at avant-garde metal at times but the dominant elements of this album are clearly rooted in the mathy end of The Revolution so I'd like to see 'ønyøurcømputer' removed from The Horde & the Grindcore genre.

This nomination has been posted in the Hall of Judgement.

I don't really hear a lot of grindcore on Whourkr's "Concrete" album to be honest. The clear protagonist is the avant-garde nature of this music & I’d hazard to suggest that the only primary genre tag necessary is the Avant-Garde Metal one given that they have a lot more in common with Mr. Bungle & Arcturus than they do with Pig Destroyer or Nasum. Therefore, I'd like to see this release removed from The Horde whilst maintaining it's position in The Infinite.

This nomination has been posted in the Hall of Judgement.

Despite the use of cut-up & heavily effected blast-beats & psychotically screamed (& generally ridiculous) vocal shenanigans, there isn’t really any trace of grindcore on Phantomsmasher's debut album 'Atomsmasher'. Hell, there’s nothing even remotely like metal if I’m being honest! Metal is built on heavy guitars & riffs but there’s next to no guitars included on this record. To my ears it’s a combination of avant-garde experimental music, electronic music, psychedelia & noise; a concoction that sits far closer to the electronic & avant-garde genres than it does to even the more ambitious metal subgenres like avant-garde metal. Therefore, I'd like to see 'Atomsmasher' removed from The Horde & added to Non-Metal.

This nomination has been posted in the Hall of Judgement.

Whoever the fuck thought it was appropriate to link Hello Kitty Suicide Club's "^_^" album to grindcore has no concept or understanding of what makes something metal. There are no guitars included here & the only thing I can see that has any relation to metal are the horrific vocals & occasional use of fast electronic kick-drums & pseudo-blast beats. This album is purely an avant-garde electronic music release & sounds a gazillion miles more like the soundtrack to the earliest computer games than it does Napalm Death. In fact, even if you were going to accept it as metal you’d have no hesitation in lumping it in with avant-garde metal as opposed to grindcore. Therefore, I'd like to see '^_^' removed from The Horde & added to Non-Metal.

This nomination has been posted in the Hall of Judgement.

While it unquestionably belongs in The Horde, Gigantic Brain's debut album offers a sci-fi inspired brand of goregrind that revels in taking you into the weird & avant-garde through head-caving electronic dissonance & over-the-top artificial blast-beats. It all sounds so strange that I feel a dual tagging with Avant-Garde Metal is essential to accurately reflect what's in store for the unsuspecting listener so I'd like to see it added to The Infinite.

This nomination has been posted in the Hall of Judgement.

The debut full-length from Italy's Bologna Violenta offers a strange concoction of silly ambient/jazz/experimental sounds mixed in with blasting electronic blastbeats & Italian porn samples. There's enough genuine grindcore to see me wanting to keep the cybergrind tag but I'd like to see this release added to The Infinite under Avant-Garde Metal as well.

This nomination has been added to the Hall of Judgement.

Boris' 2011 "Heavy Rocks" album is generally tagged as a stoner rock/metal release however it's far, far more diverse than that & I don't believe that those tags do it justice. If you look at the tracklisting in detail you'll actually find that only around a third of the run time sits under the banner of metal with post-rock & alternative rock being my preferred labels overall. For this reason, I'd like to see 'Heavy Rocks' removed from The Fallen & the Stoner Metal genre & added to Non-Metal.

This nomination has been posted in the Hall of Judgement.

I know people are divisive as to what this genre entails, but the Metal Church debut fits the bill.  It's more apparent in the second side than the first, but the songs thrash with a lot of melody and energy, and feature the same attitude as typical speed metal.  Metal Church's debut is reelatively viewed by the metal community as a hard album to define because it flows so consistently through heavy, power, USPM, speed and thrash metal.  But this speed attitude is way to apparent to ignore, and it's a shame that here on Metal Academy it's only classified as a heavy metal album.

You know, it's more than experimental enough for a punk metal album to say it, so I vote yes.

This nomination has been posted in the Hall of Judgement.

This nomination has been posted in the Hall of Judgement.

Thanks, Daniel! I’d also like the Angra and Stigmata albums I’ve submitted earlier this month sent to the Hall when possible please:

https://metal.academy/forum/28/thread/1641

https://metal.academy/forum/28/thread/1643

Living Colour's debut album really has me baffled as to where the links to metal comes from as there's really only a couple of tracks that hint at it with the rest seeming to combine a very unintimidating brand of hard rock with bouncy funk rock. I can only think that people are associating the clear album highlight "Cult of Personality" with the whole album & it's kinda borderline as it is. For this reason, I'd like to see "Vivid" removed from The Gateway & added to Non-Metal.

This nomination has been posted in the Hall of Judgement.

I've always had a problem with Scorpions records being tagged as Heavy Metal & "Love at First Sting" is a prime example of why as it really only includes the one genuine heavy metal track in "Coming Home" with opener "Bad Boys Running Wild" being borderline. Therefore, I'd like to see it removed from The Guardians & added to Non-Metal.

This nomination has been posted in the Hall of Judgement.

I just relistened to the album to see if I could see where you're coming from Andi. I have to say that I can't. I stand by everything I said. I don't hear any traditional hard rock whatsoever on "Louder Than Love". Certainly not glam metal. The riffs are built on groovy blues rock structures which brings them more into line with stoner. It's got Black Sabbath "Vol 4" influence all through it. The fact that Kyuss & Motorpsycho didn't release their albums for another couple of years is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. Sabbath invented stoner metal in the early 1970's along with a slew of other metal genres.

50% or no go for me.

I agree here, Daniel. Although a few tracks are thrashy with fast speed, the majority of this album is quite progressive with ambitious ideas and keyboard orchestration. I'm definitely voting YES in that Hall entry.

This nomination has been posted in the Hall of Judgement.

I don't hear anywhere near enough genuine metal in Danzig's sound here. It's a bluesy AC/DC-inspired hard rock record with a couple of Sabbathy heavy metal tracks & that's not enough to warrant a metal tag for mine. I'd like to see 'Danzig' removed from The Guardians & added to Non-Metal.

This nomination has been posted in the Hall of Judgement.

This nomination has been posted in the Hall of Judgement Andi.

I don't mind a bit of Fuck The Facts but haven't ventured further back in their career than 2003's "Backstabber Etiquette" which I recall being a bit flat. They've certainly improved since then but I would never have picked them for something that you'd enjoy as grindcore is certainly the primary ingredient in their sound.

Gorement's solitary full-length is generally regarded as doomy death metal in a similar way to Autopsy & Asphyx however I'd suggest that there's enough genuine doom/death included to warrant a dual tagging. Just listen to tracks like 'Silent Hymn (For The Dead)', 'Sea of Silence' or 'Into Shadows' for example! I'd like to see 'The Ending Quest' added to The Fallen under the Death Doom Metal subgenre whilst maintaining its position in The Horde under Death Metal (conventional).

This nomination has been posted in the Hall of Judgement.

I decided to give that album some listening and a review to further push my progressive metal boundaries into more experimental and extreme territory. I would say this is kind of like the Eastern oriental equivalent to Enslaved's recent material. There's barely any weird avant-garde aspects as far as I can hear. So I agree with you here, Daniel, and will definitely give your Hall entry a YES vote.

Last year's "Zoetrope" E.P. from underground English death metallers Qrixkuor as about as death metal as they come & I've struggled to pick up much in the way of black metal in their sound. I can't see any reason for the release to reside in The North so I'd like to propose that we remove it from the can & allow it to bask in the death metal glory of The Horde.

This nomination has been posted in the Hall of Judgement.

Last year's third album from Ukranian black metal outfit White Ward is often referred to as atmospheric black metal however I don't hear many traces of that sound. To my ears it's a progressive example of the more conventional black metal sound so I'd like to see it added to The Infinite under the Progressive Metal genre.

I've just added the release to the Hall of Judgement.

I've always had a problem with Girlschool records being tagged as Heavy Metal & 'Play Dirty' is a prime example of why as it really only includes the one genuine heavy metal track in opening number "Going Under". Therefore, I'd like to see it removed from The Guardians & added to Non-Metal.

This nomination has been added to the Hall of Judgement.

These two nominations have been added to the Hall of Judgement.

OK, thanks Daniel!

I honestly have no idea how people can confuse the early Motörhead records with metal releases as some of that material is barely hard rock & clearly contains a lot more of a blues component than any metal record should offer. The band's 1983 archival live album is a prime example of this with a few of the tracks even sitting much closer to rock 'n' roll or blues rock than anything else. I'd like to see "What's Words Worth?" removed from The Guardians & added to Non-Metal.

This nomination has been added to the Hall of Judgement.

The 2022 debut album from Salt Lake City-based outfit The Otolith is being tagged as a Doom Metal & Atmospheric Sludge Metal hybrid but I would argue that there's a little more to it than that. I hear a strong Ethereal Wave influence across the entire tracklisting & feel that the female vocals & alternative instrumentation would feel perfectly comfortable on a Gothic Rock release so I'd like to see the Gothic Metal tag added to this album. I'd also encourage members of The Infinite to vote down Atmospheric Sludge Metal & vote up Post-Metal as there's really not very much Sludge Metal included other than the occasional hardcore vocal line.

This release has been added to the Hall of Judgement.

I just gave this album a listen to continue my test of strength in the experimental sludge realms, and indeed it's a noise-ridden industrial sludge arsenal, ready for the listener to make a stinging dark descent. Subtle keyboard passages give light to the pummeling darkness, and the noise influences have more in common with the mechanical industrial sound, though sometimes having a bit of the post-punk level of late Daughters. So this release's judgement entry will definitely receive a YES vote from me.

I also agree. This album is really just doomy industrial metal, with slight bits of electronica and shoegaze. If this was drone metal, it would be even slower.

G.I.S.M.'s 1982 debut album certainly offers plenty in the way of metal influence however the vast majority of it's tracklisting sits far more comfortably under the Crust Punk genre which itself contains metallic elements & is suitable to cover the inclusion of a few metal moments. Therefore, I'd like to see "Detestation" removed from The Guardians & placed under Non-Metal. There's absolutely no way it's a Heavy Metal record in my opinion.

This nomination has been posted in the Hall of Judgement.

This nomination has been added to the Hall of Judgement.