The underrated/overrated thread - The Guardians Edition

Tell us which Guardians-related bands & releases you regard as either heavily overrated or cruelly underrated.

High Power - "High Power" (1983)

The debut album from this French heavy metal outfit is massively underrated in my opinion. In fact, it was the best metal release to have come out of France to the time in my opinion so I'm baffled as to why it hasn't gone on to become more well known. Perhaps it's the dodgy cover artwork? Fans of Sortilege, Mercyful Fate & particularly 70's Judas Priest will eat this up as long as they can handle the French lyrics. The vocalist really does sound like a French Rob Halford & the dual guitar attack is outstanding.

4/5

I did it! I listened to Blind Guardian's Live album, and it was awesome, except... I'm sorry, Bard fans, but I actually think "The Bard's Song (In the Forest)" is overrated. I mean, I still like it, but only when it's part of the 2-part "The Bard's Song" suite. I consider "In the Forest" the acoustic part and "The Hobbit" the heavier part. And as a heavier metalhead who's tired of acoustic ballads from metal bands being more popular than their other songs (Def Leppard, Extreme), it seriously p*ssed me off when they did NOT play "The Hobbit" part of "The Bard's Song", and instead those last 4 minutes is just crowd cheer! I hope my opinion doesn't get me back-turned by some Blind Guardian fans.

Hhmmm... interesting. I actually consider that particular track to be amongst the highlights of the album. I find the vocal hooks & crowd interaction/adoration to be quite infectious.

Nup! I'm afraid I still don't get it even though I love Criss Oliva's guitar work.

Just do not understand the love for this record.  David Wayne is overrated as a vocalist and the whole album lacks punch.  Poorly written songs that start off with promise but soon fizzle out into mediocre and forgetable tracks.  So many important albums were released in 1984 and this one is not one of them.

I agree with you Vinny. I've always quite liked "Metal Church" but have never thought of it as anything particularly special. The first three tracks are amazing. Particularly the first two which are sensational but there's a big hole in the middle of the album with both "Gods Of Wrath" & "Hitman" being well below par in my opinion. I also agree that David Wayne has some very ordinary moments at times. When he's on form he's a real force to be reckoned with but then he'll throw in something like that out of key "Woh..woh..who..woh..woooohhhh" at the end of the chorus for "Hitman" & ruin it all. The closing Deep Purple cover version is surprisingly great but it's only a 3.5/5 album for mine.

I may not consider Metal Church's debut to be a classic, but I do think it's a really enjoyable and often exciting album. There are a number of great tracks like Beyond the Black, Gods of Wrath and the awesome title track. If it wasn't for a lacklustre B side (including the cover, which like just about every cover ever recorded, doesn't fit with the rest of the album), I'd give this album 4.5 stars. As it is, is a solid 4 stars for me.

Running Wild - "Death Or Glory" (1989)

I gave Running Wild's fifth & arguably most highly regarded album "Death Or Glory" a revisit for the first time in years over the last day or so & (despite the fact that I've increased my rating by a half star since my last visit) I have to ask what the big deal is with this record. It's generally referred to as sitting somewhere between traditional heavy metal & power metal however it's really only two of the ten tracks (15 if you include the bonus tracks that come with the CD version) that manage to achieve genuine power metal status so I'll be taking a visit to the Hall of Judgement in a minute. The rest of the tracklisting is comprised of very simple song-writing that's lacking in the class & sophistication departments. The vocals of front man Rock 'n' Rolf should never have been strong enough to compete with the tier one heavy metal acts of the time either as far as I can see so I'm completely baffled as to how "Death or Glory" got to be regarded as highly as it is. At least the pirate themes are easy enough to overlook as you'd never know they were there without prior knowledge. Perhaps someone can enlighten me as I'm genuinely interested to know what I'm missing here.

For fans of Grave Digger, Judas Priest & Accept.

3/5

I'll attempt it, even though I have to agree that it seems weird that most of Running Wild's discography rivals that of much more established Heavy/proto-Power Metal bands in terms of scoring. 

I think it has to do with the fact that Running Wild are very much the middle of the road in terms of bridging the gap between classic, traditional Priest era Heavy Metal and a proto-Power Metal sound. So middle of the road, in fact, that they fall into the inoffensive category that allows them to, apparently, appeal to a hardcore but wide range of Power/Heavy Metal listeners. I can agree that Death or Glory and Black Hand Inn are great albums, but the fact that Under Jolly Roger, Port Royal, and to a lesser extent Pile of Skulls are almost just as celebrated is kind of a joke. 

As someone who likes a lot of Power Metal, especially European Power Metal, Running Wild give traditional Heavy Metal that little kick of energy that it needs for me to really enjoy it. I have nothing distinctly bad to say about what they do, even though after revisiting Death or Glory compared to Black Hand Inn I decided to bump down my score to a 4 rather than a 4.5 because I can a agree that a bit more than half the album is just slightly catchy, mid-tempo Heavy Metal songs that don't necessarily push the envelope but are still great songs nonetheless. I think that Black Hand Inn has a better album flow, more memorable riffs and sections with tracks like "Mr. Deadhead", "The Privateer", and "Freewind Rider" to name a few. Plus you get the 15 minute closer that lets Running Wild stretch their songwriting abilities a bit more. 

I think to answer about what you're missing, and I know you won't like this so much Daniel, but for me, Running Wild are the epitome of a solid, no bells and whistles Heavy Metal band that manages to be incredibly consistent enough to be "just good enough" to a lot of folks. The vocals aren't the greatest in Heavy Metal, but they're far from unserviceable. The songwriting may not be as good as peak Iron Maiden, but I still really enjoy the riffs and very slight Speed Metal influence on some songs. Plus the band as a whole just sounds bigger, grander, and a bit more epic in style compared to your other classic Heavy Metal bands, giving them their own niche. Plus, I listen to a lot of bad, bland Power Metal. I know what it's like to be utterly bored out of my mind when listening to a Power Metal album, and I never got that from any Running Wild album save for Under Jolly Roger. It might just be a perspective thing at the end of the day. 

That's a fantastic response Xephyr. That's exactly what I was after.

A truly excellent response indeed.

In saying that, I don't think you really answered the burning question of whether "Death Or Glory" should qualify as a legitimate power metal record or not Xephyr. What's your take?

Savatage - "Hall of the Mountain King" (1987)

OK so I'm gonna throw out another big call having just revisited Savatage's most highly celebrated fourth album "Hall of the Mountain King" over the last day or so. I make no bones about saying that I just don't get the appeal of Savatage & never have. Sure they have an amazing lead guitarist in Criss Oliva but his brother Jon Oliva's vocals are incredibly overrated. He simply has no right to be mentioned amongst the great front men in heavy metal as he so often is. Plus, the song-writing here is pretty inconsistent & the album's claims for US power metal status are tenuous at best. I mean there's only one track that pushes out into heavier territory than Black Sabbath, Judas Priest or the NWOBHM did (i.e. simple speed metal tune "White Witch"). The opening track "24 Hrs. Ago" is an absolute belter but I really don't see anything else here to warrant the enormous underground fanfare that this album seems to draw. I can only think that it's my inability to come to terms with Jon Oliva's theatrical wailing that prevents me from seeing the true value in Savatage's music so, despite the fact that "Hall of the Mountain King" was the band's best work to the time in my opinion, it still doesn't offer me much in the way of appeal.

For fans of Metal Church, Virgin Steele & early Queensryche.

3/5

You're making this hard on me Daniel, I never liked delving into this kind of stuff, but I guess breaking it down quick can't hurt, maybe I'll have an opinion at the end. 

The vocals, to me, are more Power Metal than something like Rob Halford or Bruce Dickinson. Both of those vocalists use their range and actual melodies more than Rolf, who kind of just forces it all out on a few tones. Even though the other two are obviously legends, Rolf is more theatric and larger than life thanks to all the echo or reverb, not sure which, which to me is more in line with Power Metal than traditional Heavy Metal. 

Guitar and bass wise, Running Wild are a wall of sound compared to something like Priest or Maiden, the bass is way more pushed back and there's more upfront distortion on the guitar riffs, a lot of Heavy Metal at the time feels thinner to me. Not in a bad way, just objectively. The tempos and energy are pushed more, even though most of their riffs are just Heavy Metal chug, none of it feels as laid back as something like Sabbath or the like. 

The drums are what throws me, since there isn't a whole lot of Power Metal here. Especially European. Double bass is rare, there's hardly any fast, galloping beats, so it's hard to say that their drummer is playing anything except straight up Heavy Metal. "Marooned" is close, but not quite, I think "Riding The Storm" is the only one.

I think I'm gonna have to go slightly towards Power Metal here. I certainly think the Heavy Metal tag should be first, but I can't see getting rid of Power Metal entirely. Their overall sound has some slight European Power Metal influence, the way the choruses are structured with the cheesy backing vocals on "Death or Glory" and "Battle of Waterloo", the always classic whoa's on "Bad To The Bone", and "Riding the Storm" having just that bit of Speed Metal in it. "Eviliution" and "March On" are absolutely just mid-tempo Heavy Metal songs though. 

Yet another massively overrated Savatage album:

Savatage - "Gutter Ballet" (1989)

Manilla Road - "The Deluge" (1986)

Another Manilla Road record that I quite like but can't seem to connect with on the same level as most other metalheads seem to. I find it to be pretty overrated to be honest. What does everything else think of it?

Gamma Ray - "Land Of The Free" (1995)

I'll just leave this one here & wait for the inevitable flaming to begin then. *Grabs his battle armour & a few boxes of popcorn.*

King Diamond - "Them" (1988)

It may surprise a few of you to learn that I actually prefer King Diamond's solo material over anything that Mercyful Fate have ever released. I understand that that opinion is a little bit out of character for an old-school extreme metal fan like myself however I simply can't go past the more modern sounding metal-as-fuck approach & Andy LaRocque's stunning lead guitar work on records like 1987's "Abigail" (my King record of choice) & 1989's "Conspiracy". Unfortunately for 1998's "Them" album, it's surrounded on both sides by those two great records which has perhaps tainted my opinion of it a touch in comparison.

"Them" relies significantly more on its sinister storyline than either of those releases did as they contained some more immediately impactful heavy metal anthems. Lyrical themes have never been something that I've cared all that much about compared to other metal fans anyway to be honest. Concept albums? Even less so as it often annoys me that the music is forced in directions that it shouldn't naturally go in order to promote a unified storyline which more often than not sees the tracklisting being tainted by filler (at least from a purely musical point of view). So what I'm really trying to say here is that even though I enjoy almost all of "Them", I find that it's lacking in genuine highlight tracks & has been short-changed in the memorability department in comparison to the other late 80's King Diamond albums. There's no doubt that it's a pretty good heavy metal record performed by skilled craftsmen but at the same time I don't think it ever sees me making a glorious metal claw & holding it aloft towards the heavens. Ultimately I just think it's a little bit overrated.

For fans of Mercyful Fate, Judas Priest & Angel Witch.

3.5/5

Gamma Ray - "Somewhere Out In Space" (1997)

This was the first time that I've tried German power metal icons Gamma Ray's classic fifth album "Somewhere Out In Space" as my earliest encounter with them was through 1995's unanimously praised "Land Of The Free" record back in the mid-90's & it did very little for me. I did quite like the double re-recording album we featured recently in 2000's "Blast From The Past" though so I thought it might be time to see what Gamma Ray's other essential releases are like.

Well unfortunately "Somewhere Out In Space" is a classic example of why I find European power metal to be a struggle most of the time. There are certainly some quality tracks included here along with some more than decent interludes however these highlights are scattered amongst other material that places a strong reliance on cheesy & consciously anthemic vocal hooks over a simple speed metal backbone. This sort of stuff has never sat very well with me as I find it very hard to connect with & songs like "The Guardians Of Mankind", "The Winged Horse" & the God-awful ballad "Pray" really do make me want to sever my ears most of the time. 

Overall, "Somewhere Out In Space" isn't awful but I find it to be heavily overrated. The musicianship is always very good & the performances are extremely tight so Gamma Ray definitely have a strong pedigree in metal music but unfortunately this isn't enough to make up for the dairy-rich melodic content that permeates half of the tracklisting. That assessment is pretty much a carbon copy of my feelings on "Land Of The Free" to be honest although I'd probably take that album over this one if pushed. I think I'll stick with "Blast From The Past" for the moment.

For fans of Helloween, Blind Guardian & Judas Priest.

3/5

Even though I love Power Metal, I've always, always struggled with Gamma Ray. I meant to comment on your popcorn grabbing opinion about Land of the Free to, surprisingly, agree with you. I don't hate them, I'm just so indifferent to them that it's hard to say too many positive things about them compared to other classic Power Metal bands. I wouldn't mind checking out another one of their albums under the microscope for a monthly feature, though. 

I'll attempt it, even though I have to agree that it seems weird that most of Running Wild's discography rivals that of much more established Heavy/proto-Power Metal bands in terms of scoring. 

I think it has to do with the fact that Running Wild are very much the middle of the road in terms of bridging the gap between classic, traditional Priest era Heavy Metal and a proto-Power Metal sound. So middle of the road, in fact, that they fall into the inoffensive category that allows them to, apparently, appeal to a hardcore but wide range of Power/Heavy Metal listeners. I can agree that Death or Glory and Black Hand Inn are great albums, but the fact that Under Jolly Roger, Port Royal, and to a lesser extent Pile of Skulls are almost just as celebrated is kind of a joke. 

As someone who likes a lot of Power Metal, especially European Power Metal, Running Wild give traditional Heavy Metal that little kick of energy that it needs for me to really enjoy it. I have nothing distinctly bad to say about what they do, even though after revisiting Death or Glory compared to Black Hand Inn I decided to bump down my score to a 4 rather than a 4.5 because I can a agree that a bit more than half the album is just slightly catchy, mid-tempo Heavy Metal songs that don't necessarily push the envelope but are still great songs nonetheless. I think that Black Hand Inn has a better album flow, more memorable riffs and sections with tracks like "Mr. Deadhead", "The Privateer", and "Freewind Rider" to name a few. Plus you get the 15 minute closer that lets Running Wild stretch their songwriting abilities a bit more. 

I think to answer about what you're missing, and I know you won't like this so much Daniel, but for me, Running Wild are the epitome of a solid, no bells and whistles Heavy Metal band that manages to be incredibly consistent enough to be "just good enough" to a lot of folks. The vocals aren't the greatest in Heavy Metal, but they're far from unserviceable. The songwriting may not be as good as peak Iron Maiden, but I still really enjoy the riffs and very slight Speed Metal influence on some songs. Plus the band as a whole just sounds bigger, grander, and a bit more epic in style compared to your other classic Heavy Metal bands, giving them their own niche. Plus, I listen to a lot of bad, bland Power Metal. I know what it's like to be utterly bored out of my mind when listening to a Power Metal album, and I never got that from any Running Wild album save for Under Jolly Roger. It might just be a perspective thing at the end of the day. 

OK so it's taken me some time to get around to it but I've finally given "Black Hand Inn" a few spins to see how it differs from Running Wild's 80's material which left me feeling so underwhelmed. The first thing I'll say is that I find "Black Hand Inn" to be the strongest Running Wild release I've heard to date. The vocals are more professionally executed, the production is cleaner & more vibrant & there's a strong Maiden/Priest/WASP influence that I really enjoy. Unfortunately though, a good half of the album is made up of that cheesy Helloween/Gamma Ray style German power metal sound that I struggle with so much. I find the guitar harmonies in particular to be a real turn-off at times actually & this undoes a lot of the good work that's been done in catchy heavy metal numbers like "Fight The Fire Of Hate" & "Freewind Rider" which I find genuine enjoyment in. When I look at the tracklisting holistically I just find it to be a real mixed bag of wins & losses with the power metal component only successfully winning me over on the epic "Genesis (The Making & Fall Of Man)". The kick drum sound also annoys me a bit but it's nothing major. I guess Running Wild simply isn't for me.

Running Wild - "Black Hand Inn" (1994)

For fans of Grave Digger, Blazon Stone & Rage.

3/5