How's your progress on Guardian's list challenges?

But there should at least be a temporary period for people to be able to get the Halls done if it needs help.  And it might make more sense if any aforementioned special condition for voting on the album may only apply to people who have actually reviewed it, and only if it's necessary, that way there's more protection.

And like I said, it would only be temporary, and it would only be for the active users who are contributing to the site.  But if that's not really possible at all then I've more or less decided which one I'll join.

I can't say I agree with this approach. A member's clan assignments are intended to play a strong role in their identity at Metal Academy so I would discourage repeated swapping of clans. It's important to remember why we have clans in the first place which is to ensure that anyone that's voting on a release's clan or subgenre is well qualified & to do so & that there's an easy avenue to differentiate between a devoted & a casual listeners feelings on a release. The Hall of Judgement is such a small part of the site in the grand scheme of things so I don't think we should be diluting the fundamental intent of the site in order to better facilitate fast outcomes there (& in doing so risk the integrity of the voting just quietly too). Remember, not being a part of a clan doesn't restrict you from enjoying the releases & sharing your thoughts on the releases it contains in any way so I can't see why anyone would want to swap to a clan simply because they feel like listening to some releases from that clan. I'd suggest that I have one of the broadest taste profiles at the Academy but there's no doubt that everyone has comfort zones where they're more knowledgeable than others & I'm well aware of what mine are. That doesn't mean that I don't love a whole bunch of releases from each of the other five clans & I don't feel in any way restricted. I know perfectly well that there are people that are more qualified than I am to select the feature releases & nominate the playlist inclusions for the other clans & I treat it as an opportunity to discover new things while I can do the same for others within the context of my own clans.

I agree with all that Daniel has said here.  Not that I give two shits about the Hall of Tagging or whatever it is used for but it strikes me that the clan membership should not be driven by votes being needed in the Hall.  My understanding is that the clans (and the luxury of being afforded a fourth clan) was to develop real expertise or be given the opportunity to grow your musical experience I think this suggestion to spuriously change your clans once a month is ludicrous and seriously detracts away from the ethos of the site.  For me, to switch up clans you have to put the work in and complete the challenges required, just like you would have done in the initial qualification for the fourth clan.  I think some of us need to take a step back and be a little less excitable (although I do not for one minute doubt that this excitement comes from a genuine and passionate standpoint on metal music) and focus on the principals of why the site is here.

I can't say I agree with this approach. A member's clan assignments are intended to play a strong role in their identity at Metal Academy so I would discourage repeated swapping of clans. It's important to remember why we have clans in the first place which is to ensure that anyone that's voting on a release's clan or subgenre is well qualified & to do so & that there's an easy avenue to differentiate between a devoted & a casual listeners feelings on a release. The Hall of Judgement is such a small part of the site in the grand scheme of things so I don't think we should be diluting the fundamental intent of the site in order to better facilitate fast outcomes there (& in doing so risk the integrity of the voting just quietly too). Remember, not being a part of a clan doesn't restrict you from enjoying the releases & sharing your thoughts on the releases it contains in any way so I can't see why anyone would want to swap to a clan simply because they feel like listening to some releases from that clan. I'd suggest that I have one of the broadest taste profiles at the Academy but there's no doubt that everyone has comfort zones where they're more knowledgeable than others & I'm well aware of what mine are. That doesn't mean that I don't love a whole bunch of releases from each of the other five clans & I don't feel in any way restricted. I know perfectly well that there are people that are more qualified than I am to select the feature releases & nominate the playlist inclusions for the other clans & I treat it as an opportunity to discover new things while I can do the same for others within the context of my own clans.

I agree with all that Daniel has said here.  Not that I give two shits about the Hall of Tagging or whatever it is used for but it strikes me that the clan membership should not be driven by votes being needed in the Hall.  My understanding is that the clans (and the luxury of being afforded a fourth clan) was to develop real expertise or be given the opportunity to grow your musical experience I think this suggestion to spuriously change your clans once a month is ludicrous and seriously detracts away from the ethos of the site.  For me, to switch up clans you have to put the work in and complete the challenges required, just like you would have done in the initial qualification for the fourth clan.  I think some of us need to take a step back and be a little less excitable (although I do not for one minute doubt that this excitement comes from a genuine and passionate standpoint on metal music) and focus on the principals of why the site is here.

I must throw my weight behind Daniel and Vinny here. The clan system is what differentiates Metal Academy from other music sites and to dumb that down is to do the fantastic work that Daniel and Ben have done a great disservice. The Hall is but a small part of the site and to sacrifice the integrity of the site's main focus to get a few easy wins there seems disingenuous.

"Easy wins" seems like a poor choice of words, though.

But we can still but heads to find some fair way to do this without sacrificing the integrity of the clan system.  Maybe I see it a little differently since I'll listen to any metal genre, but if Daniel and Ben wanted to draw attention to the Hall, then it's still an important part despite being so small.

"Easy wins" seems like a poor choice of words, though.

But we can still but heads to find some fair way to do this without sacrificing the integrity of the clan system.  Maybe I see it a little differently since I'll listen to any metal genre, but if Daniel and Ben wanted to draw attention to the Hall, then it's still an important part despite being so small.

I don't think it's a poor choice of words at all. To compromise the site's whole purpose to push through a few Hall judgements seems exactly like the definition of seeking easy wins. I think it is also obvious that despite their hope to see Hall submissions resolved, neither Ben nor Daniel are keen to relax the long-established rules around it that they themselves set.

But what would we be winning?  Even if one of my ideas suddenly became law here, that means other people would have access to the rule besides me, so I'd have to adhere to the possibility that I would lose a hall vote anyway.  And if it happened tomorrow, I wouldn't be eligible anyway since I've only locked in one clan so far.  Maybe this technically went ignored by accident, but the idea I proposed was toward the spirit of the "academic" side by writing reviews of the albums that need to be voted, and even then you still need to lock three clans vefore you're eligible to vote for the album.  In other words, you'd have to PROVE that you know the album to vote, but also prove that you are true to your clans by locking all three of your clans in before you can vote.  It's an attempt to bring people motivation to finish their clan challenges, and you'd have to write 75 actual reviews in order to get there.  There's nothing easy about it.  I was the first here to complete the Early Power Metal list, and I plan on completing at least one for every clan just for fun.  However, that took me a couple of weeks because I had already heard about half the list, and I'm only getting 24 work hours a week, so I have a lot of free time.  Most people would never listen to as many albums a day as I have done since I was 18.  So the idea of voting outside clans would only be a privilege for those who are showing real dedication to the system, both their own clans and the site itself.

But if we had games that were pitting clans against each other, make no mistake that my first choice will always be The Guardians because power metal is my favorite metal genre.  But since this idea was rejected, all I can say now is that there is no way this could qualify as an easy win.

I like that you're thinking about this stuff Rexorcist, but Daniel and I feel comfortable with the way things currently are with the Hall. That may change if we don't achieve a higher level of activity in the next year or so, but for now we're choosing to remain patient.

Let's turn our attention elsewhere. 

Well, I'll keep trying to raise awareness of the site.  I told a coworker about this place, and he was a little curious.  Thankfully he's a metalcore fan.  In the meantime, let's simply discuss current list progress.