ZeroSymbolic7188

35, Bassist, Detroit. 

The Fallen, The Horde, The North

Just wanted to say that I think the concept for this site is absolutely amazing and awesome!

Yellerp.  Can't wait to see your top 20 page.

Figured it out. In Progress.

Satisfied with my top 20 for now.

Loving the variety here.  You got stuff that fits almost every clan here, even the Revolution with that Lamb of God album.  Type O Negative is also my favorite gothic band.  If you haven't heard "The Least Worst of Type O Negative," you should.  Pretty amazing demos album.

Welcome to the Academy ZeroSymbolic7188. We're very glad you enjoy the concept & encourage you to be as active as you'd like on the site. There are some very cool activities that go on every month (like the Hall of Judgement genre-tag voting, our nine monthly clan Spotify playlists & our monthly clan feature releases) & if you'd like to be involved in any of them then simply shoot me a private message & I can help guide you through the process. If not, then enjoy the site & our tight-knit little metal community.

Welcome, ZeroSymbolic7188!

I am a HUGE Type-O fan, and still a fan of the 95-2000 gothic aesthetic in general. VTM: Bloodlines anyone? Variety is the spice of life. 

Yes, yes welcome and all that fluffy stuff but dude, what's with this one sentence review stuff?  Gives absolutely zero insight into your tastes, looks more like ill-conceived comment.  Appreciate you're new here but maybe but the brakes on and try and get through less albums in an hour?

I hear you on that, but my approach is this; why spend a 1,000 words to say what can be said in 10? As far as pacing, I've been listening to metal for a LONG time, and like the description says; the clan lists deliberately use a lot of the bigger albums. The result being that I've already heard most of them, some of them many many times. The most common rating I give is a 2.5 which signifies average, most things are average, that's why it's the average. Along with that comes the idea that about half of the stuff is below average. 

If a piece of music is just average to me, I don't have feelings for it that warrant a lengthy response. There are only so many ways to say "This was OK."

If the music is below average to my ears, I don't think it's a cool thing to write a lengthily tirade and tear it apart. To someone else it might be very cherished. Additionally I am a bassist, and I know how difficult, time consuming, and expensive it is just to get something recorded. I don't feel right bashing another artists art simply because I don't resonate with it. 

If I had my druthers I wouldn't write a review at all for anything scoring below a 4 (If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything). However, as it stands that is the only path I'm aware of to lock in your starting clans, and make additional ones available at this time, so I try to keep my reviews of 0-3 stars fairly brief. Once I get the homework done and can freely choose what I review you will see more fleshed out takes.

The other issue is when an album has a legacy status. We are all on a metal forum, do I really need to tell you that Black Sabbath's Master of Reality is a good album? What could I possibly say about such an icon that hasn't been said since it's release 53 Years ago?

These are the questions? scenarios? I wrestle with when I write reviews. Believe me, I don't like coming away from an hour long listen (which can be a REALLY long hour if we are talking about early funeral doom) with little to say, but I can't manufacture words for words sake. 

What's more ill-conceived, a short concise statement that does the job, or a rambling for rambling sake? Especially when we all have access to the medium itself a few short mouse clicks away?

I've been thinking about all of this a lot the last couple of days. What do you think? How do you approach writing your reviews?

Personally, I love going into detail.  But when I need to write a review for a clan challenge's average album, I often use the more average albums and compare them to like albums in order to fully explain it.  This helps out with an extra five sentences or so and makes the review acceptable enough to complete a clan challenge.

Personally, I love going into detail.  But when I need to write a review for a clan challenge's average album, I often use the more average albums and compare them to like albums in order to fully explain it.  This helps out with an extra five sentences or so and makes the review acceptable enough to complete a clan challenge.

If comparing mediocre albums to one another to highlight subtle differences in the ways they are mediocre makes you happy then god bless and go for it, but it's not an appealing way for me to spend my limited recreational time. 

When I say "like albums" I meant the genre or the behavior of the album rather than the quality.

I hear you on that, but my approach is this; why spend a 1,000 words to say what can be said in 10? As far as pacing, I've been listening to metal for a LONG time, and like the description says; the clan lists deliberately use a lot of the bigger albums. The result being that I've already heard most of them, some of them many many times. The most common rating I give is a 2.5 which signifies average, most things are average, that's why it's the average. Along with that comes the idea that about half of the stuff is below average. 

If a piece of music is just average to me, I don't have feelings for it that warrant a lengthy response. There are only so many ways to say "This was OK."

If the music is below average to my ears, I don't think it's a cool thing to write a lengthily tirade and tear it apart. To someone else it might be very cherished. Additionally I am a bassist, and I know how difficult, time consuming, and expensive it is just to get something recorded. I don't feel right bashing another artists art simply because I don't resonate with it. 

If I had my druthers I wouldn't write a review at all for anything scoring below a 4 (If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything). However, as it stands that is the only path I'm aware of to lock in your starting clans, and make additional ones available at this time, so I try to keep my reviews of 0-3 stars fairly brief. Once I get the homework done and can freely choose what I review you will see more fleshed out takes.

The other issue is when an album has a legacy status. We are all on a metal forum, do I really need to tell you that Black Sabbath's Master of Reality is a good album? What could I possibly say about such an icon that hasn't been said since it's release 53 Years ago?

These are the questions? scenarios? I wrestle with when I write reviews. Believe me, I don't like coming away from an hour long listen (which can be a REALLY long hour if we are talking about early funeral doom) with little to say, but I can't manufacture words for words sake. 

What's more ill-conceived, a short concise statement that does the job, or a rambling for rambling sake? Especially when we all have access to the medium itself a few short mouse clicks away?

I've been thinking about all of this a lot the last couple of days. What do you think? How do you approach writing your reviews?

Thanks for the reply, but this is predominantly a "review" site. It's not a "short concise statement on some music I heard once" site.  Also, you are missing the point of a review.  A review is to tell us why you enjoy an album, not necessarily why we would because you couldn't possibly know.  Your post here shows you are an articulate guy, whereas your reviews come across as a click bait, smash and grab, social media style expression which I don't think necessarily does you justice.

Accepting the point about limited time but we have all managed to lock in our clans by going into at least some detail, which does take more than one listen over a few days (hell even weeks) around jobs, family and other commitments.  

I am not being a dick here and apologies if it comes across that way.  I am not representing the views of the site either.  As a musician I just sense there's more depth and experience you could get into your reviews to share with us.  Entirely your choice though.

I hear you on that, but my approach is this; why spend a 1,000 words to say what can be said in 10? As far as pacing, I've been listening to metal for a LONG time, and like the description says; the clan lists deliberately use a lot of the bigger albums. The result being that I've already heard most of them, some of them many many times. The most common rating I give is a 2.5 which signifies average, most things are average, that's why it's the average. Along with that comes the idea that about half of the stuff is below average. 

If a piece of music is just average to me, I don't have feelings for it that warrant a lengthy response. There are only so many ways to say "This was OK."

If the music is below average to my ears, I don't think it's a cool thing to write a lengthily tirade and tear it apart. To someone else it might be very cherished. Additionally I am a bassist, and I know how difficult, time consuming, and expensive it is just to get something recorded. I don't feel right bashing another artists art simply because I don't resonate with it. 

If I had my druthers I wouldn't write a review at all for anything scoring below a 4 (If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything). However, as it stands that is the only path I'm aware of to lock in your starting clans, and make additional ones available at this time, so I try to keep my reviews of 0-3 stars fairly brief. Once I get the homework done and can freely choose what I review you will see more fleshed out takes.

The other issue is when an album has a legacy status. We are all on a metal forum, do I really need to tell you that Black Sabbath's Master of Reality is a good album? What could I possibly say about such an icon that hasn't been said since it's release 53 Years ago?

These are the questions? scenarios? I wrestle with when I write reviews. Believe me, I don't like coming away from an hour long listen (which can be a REALLY long hour if we are talking about early funeral doom) with little to say, but I can't manufacture words for words sake. 

What's more ill-conceived, a short concise statement that does the job, or a rambling for rambling sake? Especially when we all have access to the medium itself a few short mouse clicks away?

I've been thinking about all of this a lot the last couple of days. What do you think? How do you approach writing your reviews?

Thanks for the reply, but this is predominantly a "review" site. It's not a "short concise statement on some music I heard once" site.  Also, you are missing the point of a review.  A review is to tell us why you enjoy an album, not necessarily why we would because you couldn't possibly know.  Your post here shows you are an articulate guy, whereas your reviews come across as a click bait, smash and grab, social media style expression which I don't think necessarily does you justice.

Accepting the point about limited time but we have all managed to lock in our clans by going into at least some detail, which does take more than one listen over a few days (hell even weeks) around jobs, family and other commitments.  

I am not being a dick here and apologies if it comes across that way.  I am not representing the views of the site either.  As a musician I just sense there's more depth and experience you could get into your reviews to share with us.  Entirely your choice though.

Agreed on most of this, although the only disagreement is really more of a preference than an actual contradiction: I rarely feel the need to listen to an album more than once to form my opinions, but since some people here do, it's not something I'd ever choose to gripe about.  It's probably because I write a review and edit it as I'm listening to the album in most cases, but lots of people tend to collect their emotions before writing.  For the sake of example, I decided to check out one of yours on your profile, and read the first paragraph of your previous review for Thergothon:

"Exploring early funeral doom is fast becoming my favourite way to relax.  It really is testimony to the knowledge of the creator of this clan challenge (The Fallen: Doom Metal - The Early Days) as to how good an introduction to the clan this list of releases is."

I didn't finish the review since I haven't heard the album, but that's not the point.  To Zero: This is the kind of intro that establishes a personal connection between the viewer and the reader, calling to mind the conception and familiarity of relaxation to keep in mind for the rest of the review, kind of like good character development in a novel.  So whatever's needed to make things more personal is an absolute necessity, even if it takes more than one play of the album.  Hell, that's why Kid A exists.

On top of that, aren't reviews verified and unaccepted if they don't meet certain standards?  I mean, I can't be alone in this: I took one look at the standards and decided I'd try to meet them the best I could when I first got here.

Predominantly a Review Site?

From the FAQ: 
What is Metal Academy?

Metal Academy is first and foremost a community site where fans can talk about all things metal and discover new releases and friends. It was created by the brothers behind the Metal Academy podcast, which is a podcast that chronologically explores the history of metal music.

I came here to be part of a community, make friends, talk metal (not rate and rank it), and discover new releases. There is nothing in that description that indicates it's "predominantly a review site", and if it is just about that then I came to wrong place. I'm going to ask Dan via PM what the aim is here. 

As far as repeated listens go. I am of the strongly held opinion that good music is simply good. If you have to force yourself to like something, it's not good. You are just convincing yourself to like something that you really do not like for clout. Think about your absolute favorite albums-the ones that really do it for you, the stuff that hits you right in the heart. I'm betting you didn't need to hear it over and over. Keep in mind I am a doom-metal guy, I understand that an album sometimes needs to establish an atmosphere and warm up, but even then it's not difficult to know pretty quickly if you like what it's building toward or not. 

and lastly, Where are the standards posted? I did look for for a format or a criteria, but the closest thing I found was the very loose "Also note that reviews do not have to be essays, but they must include personal views based on personal experience."

My personal experience with some of this stuff it that it isn't really anything special. I'm on a quest for the cream of the crop, in world where we have youtube, spotify, bandcamp, etc. why settle for less than the top of the mountain? Why give an essay and an hour to some 2.5/3 album when there is a 5 out there somewhere waiting to be discovered? Feel me?

I'm happy for Academy members to use the site however they want to, as long as they do so with respect. I hadn't really thought about it until now, but I guess that means respect for fellow members as well as for metal music in general (which I'd like to think everyone that joins would have to some degree).

There does appear to be a divide on the site between members that really devote themselves to each and every release before giving it a rating / writing a review and those that are content with a single (even partial) listen before providing their opinion and moving on. I personally fall into the devotee camp, listening to albums multiple times and trying to understand them fully before feeling like I've given them full opportunity to sink in and offer everything they have. Sometimes that's 3 listens, often it's 6 or 7. And yes, my rating can (and often does) go up or down over time.

I have to admit, and I'm sure this is where Vinny (UnhinderedbyTalent) is coming from here, for someone like me, it's naturally quite disturbing to witness other members listening to 5 or 6 albums in a day (seemingly for the first time for some of them) and dishing out an offhanded comment and a low rating. I think your review of Gorguts' Colored Sands is the perfect example

"As I work through this list I am really running out of fun ways to say "great musicianship, horrible music", but here we are again." 0.5 stars

Many other site members consider that album to be a modern death metal classic, so such a flippant remark and a rating that suggests it's the absolute worst that metal has to offer does come across as trolling (even if it's not). Whether or not it's possible to accurately assess an album like Colored Sands on first listen isn't the point, but your review displays little respect for the music or the other members that think it's great. If you hate an album and think it deserves 0.5 stars, that's absolutely fine, but leaving a review like that one holds little value other than to progress you towards completing the challenge. The challenges were created so that clan members could educate themselves / display knowledge and understanding of some of the classic releases in the genres they've chosen to affiliate themselves with. I can only recommend that you at least spend a few sentences to explain (respectfully) why any given release deserves to be placed at the absolute bottom of the pile (or to hold any other position).

The idea of keeping it short was my way of showing respect for things like that. The most respectful thing I could have done was not leave any kind of review there, and I would have prefered to do that, but the current structure of the site makes it mandatory to do so. I would absolutely jump on any kind of alternative way forward but it simply isn't there as of right now. I am familiar with Colored Sands and it is not a first time listen for me (it's over a decade old). I also know the weight that it and Gorguts carry in death metal circles. Was the right thing to do write an extended essay detailing how much I dislike it? That to me seams the negative, disrespectful, and toxic thing to do, and a good way to butt heads, but I can absolutely go and do that for you. It's not going to be pretty, nice, or productive. Do you still want it?

Edit, to late now brother. I'm going to give it to you. Gonna dedicate it to you too. Strap in. This me respecting your wish that I do a deep analysis. 

There is nothing mandatory about completing the challenges. They're entirely optional.

Also, there's nothing disrespectful or toxic about writing a negative review for an album, no matter how much that album is loved by others. It's the manner in which you write the review that can be considered disrespectful or toxic.

There's a big difference between:

Made up example one: "I understand that Colored Sands is a much loved classic, but for whatever reason I just can't connect with it and find it to be musically impressive yet somehow lifeless and unengaging. I've really tried, but I don't see the appeal. 1 star"

Made up example two: "Gorguts are just a really shit band. It's not surprising really, as all technical death metal is shit. 1 star"

Try reading some other people's reviews to get an idea of the terminology and overall structure used.

My review structure is usually two introductory paragraphs (often one talking about the backstory behind the album, whether from my perspective or a well-known story, and the other one describing what to expect in the album), three paragraphs talking about all the tracks, and one conclusion paragraph to summarize it all. You may test out my review structure style to give your reviews better quality if you'd like, ZeroSymbolic7188, but with some slight changes to suit your comfort.

I went back to Gorguts and did my thing. I don't know if you will like the thing, but I thinged my ass off.

I went back to Gorguts and did my thing. I don't know if you will like the thing, but I thinged my ass off.

Hi, Zero. Just read your review and although I may not have put it quiite so bluntly, I actually agree with your view of excessively technical metal. I am over sixty and have been a metalhead since I was 14, so remember all too well when metal was treated with contempt by fans of other styles of music for being simplistic and dumb, so it rubs me up the wrong way too when some devotees of technical and complex metal look down on fans of "simpler" forms (ie metal with actual songs). It's bad enough when outsiders do it, but it feels like a betrayal when so-called metal brothers do it. But Ben was right, your new review has given everyone a far better insight into who you are and where you're coming from than the original one-liner. For the record, I thought Gorguts' first two albums were pretty good, but when they ditched the songs for a purely technical form of expression on the highly-rated Obscura they completely lost me.

As a massive fan of funeral doom metal and judging by some of your comments so far regarding it, I suppose we won't always see eye to eye, but it's good to meet you and I hope you enjoy your time here. Welcome.

I went back to Gorguts and did my thing. I don't know if you will like the thing, but I thinged my ass off.

Hi, Zero. Just read your review and although I may not have put it quiite so bluntly, I actually agree with your view of excessively technical metal. I am over sixty and have been a metalhead since I was 14, so remember all too well when metal was treated with contempt by fans of other styles of music for being simplistic and dumb, so it rubs me up the wrong way too when some devotees of technical and complex metal look down on fans of "simpler" forms (ie metal with actual songs). It's bad enough when outsiders do it, but it feels like a betrayal when so-called metal brothers do it. But Ben was right, your new review has given everyone a far better insight into who you are and where you're coming from than the original one-liner. For the record, I thought Gorguts' first two albums were pretty good, but when they ditched the songs for a purely technical form of expression on the highly-rated Obscura they completely lost me.

As a massive fan of funeral doom metal and judging by some of your comments so far regarding it, I suppose we won't always see eye to eye, but it's good to meet you and I hope you enjoy your time here. Welcome.

Thank you so much man. That truly means a lot to me. I just didn't know if my brand of negative review would be well received. I've had the misfortune of being around moderation elsewhere (looking at you Reddit) that would chalk up any kind of negativity as toxic trolling, so I had learned to reel myself in. I was genuinely concerned that I was gonna wake up banned this morning. 

I absolutely love funeral doom, I just prefer the "pretty" stuff with the violins and keys as opposed to the oppressive wall of sound synthesizer approach.