"The Roots of Metal" Project

I'm not sure it's all that essential that we do that to be honest but we'll see how we go.

Let's take a look at "Sleeping Village" today. Heavy metal? Hard rock? Blues rock? Conventional doom metal?

It's closer to metal than the other hard rock tracks on this album, but I think since more hard rock appears than metal, I'll go hard rock primary with metal secondary.

I agree that it's not consistently metal enough to qualify. It sports a pretty jerky song structure that doesn't flow very well, instead coming across like a number of disparate ideas having been pasted together in haphazard fashion. It kinda plays out like this:

0:00-0:53 Psychedelic folk

0:53-1:34 Hard rock

1:34-2:05 Traditional doom metal

2:05-3:05 Psychedelic rock

3:05-3:46 Traditional doom metal

I'd suggest that the best fit for this one is heavy psych personally.

Outside of the intro, it's more rockish than metal. The metal bits don't quite seem heavy.

How about "Warning" then? Blues rock? Heavy metal? Hard rock? Heavy psych?

I certainly think of the bass and drum combo as heavy enough to qualify as early metal, but the blues rock kinda gets in the way of it until we're 3 minutes in where it becomes all about heaviness until going back to blues.  But as part of me really does feel like it's "early metal" as opposed to hard rock because its mood, bass and drumming are just so deep and dark.  It's like my instincts are telling me, "this really is metal, and you just don't see it."  It's kinda Zeppelinish, but Zeppelin has a few metal songs among the first four albums.

I hear precisely zero metal in "Warning". It's by far the most obviously blues rock track on the album in my opinion, only veering off a bit towards Led Zeppelin style hard rock right at the end.

I've been thinking about it & I think we should go with the current Spotify version of the album which simply tacks "Wicked World" on the end of the original English version. Therefore, we'll take a look at "Wicked World" tomorrow.

I think this one's not really metal, pure blues rock with some hard rock bits. Akin to one of Zeppelin's long songs, nice, but not really metal.

Then it's settled: the European edition isn't a metal album.  It would be safer to assume that the album was in fact responsible for the creation, but was more of a practice run for the future genre.  So all we have to worry about now is the US edition.

Now the RY chart tags two more albums as metal: Paranoid which came out in December, and Sir Lord Baltimore's Kingdom Come in December.  And of course, there was my nomination Deep Purple in Rock which I feel goes between both more so than being purely hard rock or heavy metal.

This also means that since I'm still not fully sure about Warning, I might as well just say it's not metal, and that means 2/7 songs aren't metal and only twelve minutes total make it.  So I'll have to remove the tag from my log since I only catalog the original edition.

Let's just get through "Wicked World" before jumping to any conclusions. The US version of the album was also released in 1970 & could well have been simultaneously so I don't think it's fair to say that the English version is the original & most definitive one. It depended on where you lived at the time. Plus, we still have one or two tracks where we didn't have a unanimous position & I'd like to seek further input from one of two other members before reaching a final outcome.

Anyway.... "Wicked World" then. Metal or not?

Bluesy and jazzy for the first fifty seconds, but its major rhythm and delivery is pretty heavy, especially for its time.  Not the heaviest song on the album, but certainly heavier than all the hard rock songs that came before it.  It's a little difficult to classify this song under one tag since it shifts so much, but I'm gonna chalk this one up as hard rock / heavy metal.

I agree that "Wicked World" is a bit borderline. I've got it as sitting between stoner rock & stoner metal but it certainly leans more to the rock side of the equation. The verse riff is so doomy & utilizes one of the defining tools in the metal arsenal in fast, palm-muted down-strokes, very similar to those used in the title-track from "Paranoid" actually. Given that this riff is so instrumental in how the track plays out I'm happy to suggest that "Wicked World" should qualify as metal.

While we wait to see if there's any remaining input from anyone prior to us starting to take a look at Deep Purple's "In Rock" album tomorrow morning, here's my final track-by-track position on "Black Sabbath":

The combined run time of the three tracks that I've tagged as being metal amounts to exactly 40% of the total album duration which is within the qualification parameters set at the start of this exercise. Therefore, I'm comfortable that "Black Sabbath" is a legitimate metal release, the very first one in fact.

While it's really great to be able to visually justify my long-time feelings on the matter, the REALLY interesting thing about the above chart can be found in the Subgenre column. As most of you will no doubt be aware, "Black Sabbath" is generally tagged as a Heavy Metal release & always has been but I haven't tagged a single track as Heavy Metal. Right or wrong, this is in line with some niggling subconscious feelings I've held for several years now, ever since I started putting together the monthly playlists for The Guardians actually. You see, whenever I would select a track from "Black Sabbath" for inclusion in the playlist it would sound very different to the remainder of the tracklisting which left me wondering if the Heavy Metal tag was really the most accurate description of the album by the modern understanding of the genre definitions. Using the above chart as a guide, I would actually have to suggest that the best fit would be a combination of Blues Rock & Stoner Metal. To support that position, the definition of Stoner Metal is as follows: "a subgenre of Metal music that combines elements of Doom Metal with elements of Psychedelic Rock and Blues Rock to create a melodic yet heavy sound". That description sounds very close to what I've listed above & have heard while reviewing the album to be honest. It just feels more in line with Black Sabbath's early musical direction than the definition of Heavy Metal i.e. "a heavier outgrowth of Hard Rock featuring greater distortion and intensity along with lesser Blues influences".

If we decided to make a change from the long-time consensus (which would need two successful Hall of Judgement entries just quietly), it would not only require a clan change for the album but would indirectly require an acceptance that we should tag releases with the most relevant subgenre as per the current day meaning of the terms rather than simply tagging releases with whatever it is they may have been tagged as many decades ago. I for one would be happy with that approach because, by its very definition, genre-tagging is about bringing people's attention to music that they're likely to enjoy. So, if basically every Stoner Metal band known to man is simply emulating "Black Sabbath" then it only makes sense that "Black Sabbath" is also tagged as Stoner Metal, regardless of whether that term existed back at the time of release. I'm also of the strong opinion that Metal Academy should run its own race rather than being dictated to by the masses who may be completely off the mark. Anyway... that's just my two cents. Feel free to shoot my position down in flames if you disagree. I just thought it was an interesting discussion point. Thoughts?

Mm, it is pretty druggy at times, but the problem here is that only a quarter of the songs would be stoner metal.  This seems like a conversation more fit for RYM considering that they have a plain metal tag, and in the instance where 40% of it relies on two variants of metal, that tag actually feels appropriate.  But here, I'm not so sure.  The truth is it's so difficult to classify.  But because it's so difficult, why not just consider it the earliest form of "heavy metal" because this was basically a practice run for better things?

Now I already removed the metal tag on my log and took the album of my top 100 heavy metal albums list in progress.  It's not really going to affect the group's relevancy as a metal band for me.

I agree that this would fall into a category of hard rock/metal. Not the biggest listener of stoner, so I won't comment on that either way.

This exercise was interesting, because were this any other band, I'd think right now we'd say this is hard rock. This album, outside of the first song, really dances around genre. But, because it's Black Sabbath, we're trying to find ways to justify it back onto metal. (not accusing anyone of anything I'm not doing myself) Between the songs agreed to be metal and the non-metal songs with metal bits, we have enough, but it is interesting how close things got.

I agree that this would fall into a category of hard rock/metal. Not the biggest listener of stoner, so I won't comment on that either way.

This exercise was interesting, because were this any other band, I'd think right now we'd say this is hard rock. This album, outside of the first song, really dances around genre. But, because it's Black Sabbath, we're trying to find ways to justify it back onto metal. (not accusing anyone of anything I'm not doing myself) Between the songs agreed to be metal and the non-metal songs with metal bits, we have enough, but it is interesting how close things got.

No you're right, I made a very clear post about justifying Warning, and now looking back it sounds like I was spouting bullshit.  Of course it only got that close because we decided to do this with an edition that includes Wicked World.  But I don't think we'll have any problems with Paranoid at all.

the problem here is that only a quarter of the songs would be stoner metal. 

I may only have tagged two tracks as stoner metal but that's only a technicality really. My results indicated that I needed to award the album a metal tag & the one that I feel is most capable of encompassing subgenres like stoner rock, heavy psych & blues rock is stoner metal so I selected it as much on the other tracks as I did on the two that I actually tagged as stoner metal. Personally, I think a generic "metal" tag is a bit of a cop-out that serves no real purpose. It doesn't work at Metal Academy given the clan configurations either. It's also worth noting that there are no tags from The Guardians in my chart & three tags from The Fallen.

This exercise was interesting, because were this any other band, I'd think right now we'd say this is hard rock. This album, outside of the first song, really dances around genre. But, because it's Black Sabbath, we're trying to find ways to justify it back onto metal. (not accusing anyone of anything I'm not doing myself)

I actually remained completely impartial throughout the exercise & tagged each song as I would a release from an anonymous modern-day band. I have no skin in the game as such as there are several other Black Sabbath releases that I don't believe to qualify as metal (see "Technical Ecstasy", "Never Say Die!" & "Seventh Star"). I was just looking for a unanimous site position on the matter so that everyone was comfortable with the direction.

Now that we seem to have some consensus on "Black Sabbath" as the first genuine metal release, let's move on to Deep Purple's "Deep Purple In Rock" album which was released just three months later & a couple of you are claiming to be a metal release. It's been a while since I listened to it so I'm gonna keep an open mind & judge each track on its merit.

Let's start with opener "Speed King":

Lemme start by pointing out that the opening to this song is practically the heaviest thing that ever came out by that point.  All the noise, riffage and loud energy is there.  it doesn't even sound like Zeppelin.  The whole song is built on a hard rock riff with extra speed and energy, as well as Ian Gillan being more accepting of the "heavy metal wail" than on previous albums.  And yes, it has keyboards, but so does Highway Star and the single's tagged on RYM as heavy metal primary.  This song was the next step in heaviness, following Sabbath and Zeppelin in their footsteps and upping the ante.  Sure it has softer moments, but so does asstons of metal these days.  The artsier stuff has it all the time, look at power and symphonic.

It's a fairly noisy, raucous & electric example of hard rock in my opinion. I'm not denying the intensity but there aren't any of metal's calling cards on display here as far as I can see. That intro is pure rock 'n' roll debauchery, not too dissimilar to what Jimi Hendrix had been doing a few years previous. The riffs are pure open-string hard rock & lack the chug & the more rhythmic palm-muting technique that most heavy metal riffs are generally built on & the organ only further accentuates that. I'd suggest that Gillan's wail is pretty damn close to rebellious rock 'n' roll singers like Little Richard more than anything else. When it comes down to it, "Speed King" gets me tapping my foot rather than banging my head which is (as a gross generalization) what differentiates hard rock from metal.

I was banging my head just fine, and I usually tap anyway.

Interesting thoughts on "Speed King", Rex and Daniel. You guys might laugh at what I'm about to say, but to my ears, this is practically proto-speed metal! Maybe close to speed rock? Even back then, there's some speed and intensity in the hard rock/metal riffing not too far off from early speed metal. My genre verdict for "Speed King": Hard rock/heavy metal/proto-speed metal

While we wait to see if there's any remaining input from anyone prior to us starting to take a look at Deep Purple's "In Rock" album tomorrow morning, here's my final track-by-track position on "Black Sabbath":

The combined run time of the three tracks that I've tagged as being metal amounts to exactly 40% of the total album duration which is within the qualification parameters set at the start of this exercise. Therefore, I'm comfortable that "Black Sabbath" is a legitimate metal release, the very first one in fact.

While it's really great to be able to visually justify my long-time feelings on the matter, the REALLY interesting thing about the above chart can be found in the Subgenre column. As most of you will no doubt be aware, "Black Sabbath" is generally tagged as a Heavy Metal release & always has been but I haven't tagged a single track as Heavy Metal. Right or wrong, this is in line with some niggling subconscious feelings I've held for several years now, ever since I started putting together the monthly playlists for The Guardians actually. You see, whenever I would select a track from "Black Sabbath" for inclusion in the playlist it would sound very different to the remainder of the tracklisting which left me wondering if the Heavy Metal tag was really the most accurate description of the album by the modern understanding of the genre definitions. Using the above chart as a guide, I would actually have to suggest that the best fit would be a combination of Blues Rock & Stoner Metal. To support that position, the definition of Stoner Metal is as follows: "a subgenre of Metal music that combines elements of Doom Metal with elements of Psychedelic Rock and Blues Rock to create a melodic yet heavy sound". That description sounds very close to what I've listed above & have heard while reviewing the album to be honest. It just feels more in line with Black Sabbath's early musical direction than the definition of Heavy Metal i.e. "a heavier outgrowth of Hard Rock featuring greater distortion and intensity along with lesser Blues influences".

If we decided to make a change from the long-time consensus (which would need two successful Hall of Judgement entries just quietly), it would not only require a clan change for the album but would indirectly require an acceptance that we should tag releases with the most relevant subgenre as per the current day meaning of the terms rather than simply tagging releases with whatever it is they may have been tagged as many decades ago. I for one would be happy with that approach because, by its very definition, genre-tagging is about bringing people's attention to music that they're likely to enjoy. So, if basically every Stoner Metal band known to man is simply emulating "Black Sabbath" then it only makes sense that "Black Sabbath" is also tagged as Stoner Metal, regardless of whether that term existed back at the time of release. I'm also of the strong opinion that Metal Academy should run its own race rather than being dictated to by the masses who may be completely off the mark. Anyway... that's just my two cents. Feel free to shoot my position down in flames if you disagree. I just thought it was an interesting discussion point. Thoughts?

Coming in late for the track-by-track analysis for Black Sabbath's debut, I'll just do it all at once. Once again, our ears don't hear alike, Daniel. Not that there's anything really different for each of us to hear, but we do think differently. Here's how I would genre-tag these 8 tracks:

1. Black Sabbath - Doom metal/hard rock/heavy metal

2. The Wizard - Blues rock/hard rock

3. Behind the Wall of Sleep - Blues rock/stoner rock

4. N.I.B. - Blues rock/hard rock/heavy metal/stoner metal

5. Evil Woman - Blues rock/hard rock

6. Sleeping Village - Hard rock/heavy metal/progressive rock

7. Warning - Blues rock/progressive rock/jazz rock

8. Wicked World - Hard rock/heavy metal/stoner rock

The only songs that we both agree on the exact style are the two blues/hard rock songs "The Wizard" and "Evil Woman". As for the other songs... The title track is indeed the first ever doom metal song, though the last minute and a half speeds up to hard rock/heavy metal. "Behind the Wall of Sleep" has a more bluesy form of stoner rock. The riffing has that bluesy hard rock vibe of Cream, but the rest of the song shines in heavy metal/proto-stoner metal. For "Sleeping Village", replace the word "psych" with "metal", and witness the prog-ish hard rock emotion in the second half. "Warning" is basically blues rock with an overlong twist of a progressive/jazz rock improvisational jam. And "Wicked World is an underrated stoner-ish hard rock/heavy metal classic. With all that, I consider the album on the whole a blend of heavy metal, hard rock, and blues rock, with stoner rock and progressive rock as secondary genres. Black Sabbath's debut is indeed the first true heavy metal album, despite the blues rock influences that they would greatly reduce in their more solidifying sophomore album Paranoid released later that year...