Can We Clear Up A Question About Atmospheric Sludge Metal?

I have been including atmospheric sludge in The Fallen playlists since taking over the compilation from Daniel, yet whilst checking out the clan challenge lists I noticed that the atmospheric sludge challenge is under The Infinite. So my question is, does atmospheric sludge have two clans and if not, should it be included within The Fallen or The Infinite? Atmospheric sludge is not mentioned as a sub-genre for either The Fallen or Infinite on the clan pages so I have been left a little confused.

Atmospheric Sludge falls under both clans. It is a mixture of Sludge (Fallen) and Post (Infinite), so it just made sense to do it that way. As for the clan challenge, well I had to choose one. Daniel and I agreed at the time that a lot of Atmospheric Sludge borders more on the Post-Metal side, so we went with The Infinite.

I think this makes it fair game for Atmospheric Sludge tracks to be included in either playlists. I imagine some judgement calls will be made about individual tracks, for example you're probably not likely to choose a track if it's basically Post-Metal, but it's fine if you do too.

Well, time to change the number to 0 in "days since last Atmospheric Sludge clan discussion"! In all seriousness though, Atmospheric Sludge does indeed mix sludge metal and post-metal. The subgenre has the slow tempo and harsh vocals of regular sludge, but that's where the similarities between those two kinds end. Atmospheric Sludge put its focus on the intense atmosphere, lengthy structures, and crescendo themes of post-metal, all that more superior to the sludgy aspects. With that, Atmospheric Sludge has a lot more in common with post-metal and should be considered an Infinite subgenre. I would also call this subgenre "Post-Sludge", but that's just my opinion.

So, is Atmospheric Sludge to still be considered as part of The Fallen or solely an Infinite subgenre as the decision will make a huge difference to The Fallen playlist which I currently try to make 10% atmo-sludge. Daniel and Ben do you want to make an executive call on this or do we need a vote?

Voting would be good, maybe via an experiment similar to the ones for trance metal, trancecore, and Nintendocore, where we listen to a song from each of the prominent Atmospheric Sludge metal bands/releases to see which closest-sounding genres/clans the subgenre can stay in. How does that sound?

After thinking about it a bit overnight I've started to wonder whether we even need a post-sludge metal tag at all. Would we not be better served by simply doing away with it altogether? That way a post-sludge album could reside in the most logical genre (i.e. either sludge metal or post-metal or both) based on its characteristics. We don't have post-xxxx tags setup for other genres like black metal so why the need for one here? Are fans of one form of Post-Metal likely to dislike another with a different base genre? I'd suggest not & when you say Post-Metal to most metal fans they'll likely think of Post-Sludge releases anyway.

If post-sludge was to remain & reside in the one clan, I think it's important to remember that The Fallen is the home of the riff while The Infinite is the home of the experimental & expansive. I don't see post-sludge as riff-based. In fact, it's build around the idea that it's more textural with simple riff structures being broken down so I see it as more logical to reside in The Infinite. This is backed up by my experiences with prog-heads who seem to take bands like Isis in with open arms but aren't necessarily open to other The Fallen subgenres like doom, sludge stoner, drone or gothic metal. If there's enough of a sludge component then a Post-Metal release can also be added to Sludge Metal as well.

Note: If we were to do away with Atmospheric Sludge Metal altogether it would be a major financial & logistical exercise for Ben so please keep this conversation purely hypothetical.

I think there is a lot of sense in what you say there, Daniel. I am not as well-versed in atmospheric sludge as others (although I am trying to learn!) so I don't have a definitive answer, but a lot of the stuff I hear doesn't especially feel like it has a whole lot in common with most of the rest of the Fallen genres, apart from the vocals. I don't see as we need to get rid of the tag, as well as the hassle and expense for Ben, it is a recognisable sub-genre for people who may be new to Metal Academy, whereas introducing a completely new genre tag, no matter how apt, may become confusing. I think it is just a matter of it residing in the correct clan. If it was moved to the Infinite then releases that still contained a fair percentage of actual sludge could be dual-tagged as atmo-sludge and regular sludge, thus allowing them to reside in both clans.

My original question was in relation mainly to the playlist for the Fallen. As I said earlier, about 10% of the playlist is dedicated to atmospheric sludge and more obviously recognisable Fallen genres like funeral doom, drone and epic doom have less than 5% each (2.5% for epic doom) so dedicating such a chunk of time to a contentious genre sits a little uneasily with me.

I've updated my Best of my Post-Sludge Elemental Star Spotify playlist to make sure all 7 bands I've chosen are post-sludge. If any of you have the time, please check it out and see which of these tracks are more suitable for The Fallen and/or The Infinite: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/59Sf6o9TJg2z7sjVzQkMcp

Jesu's Infinity has more drone, but I think there's some post-sludge potential in that 50-minute track.