The Post-Metal Thread

Cult Of Luna - "Somewhere Along The Highway" (2006)

The fourth album from these Swedish post-metallers didn't hit me quite as hard when I first encountered it over a decade ago now. Perhaps I'm mellowing in my old age but this revisit has seen me thoroughly captivated by the gorgeous dynamics & the textural atmosphere that Cult Of Luna can create when they're at their best. For fans of Isis, Neurosis & The Ocean.

4.5/5

Neurosis - "The Eye Of Every Storm" (2004)

Neurosis eighth album (or ninth if you include their 2003 collaboration with Jarboe) saw them delivering their most stripped back, emotionally charged & atmospheric release to the time. Subsequently, you'll find that "The Eye Of Every Storm" requires a little more commitment from the listener before its qualities start to shine through but, once they do, I can assure you that this is yet another mind-blowing record from one of my all-time favourite artists. The depth & substance on display here is nothing short of phenomenal, despite the fact that the band tinker with self-indulgence at times. It's also another prime example of why we don't need the atmospheric sludge metal tag because this record is a hell of a lot closer to post-metal than it is to sludge. Essential listening for fans of Isis, Cult Of Luna & Minsk.

4.5/5

I have a couple of questions for everyone. I've never felt completely comfortable with us using the subgenre title "Atmospheric Sludge Metal" for a number of reasons:

1. It's only really used on the one site i.e. RYM.

2. The sound is clearly a combination of post-rock & sludge metal & for other subgenres such as black metal, punk & hardcore that have a very similar situation we've simply adopted the "post-x" tag which seems more fitting.

3. The sound of the majority of the bands grouped under the tag is generally more Post-Metal than it is Sludge Metal so I can't see why we don't utilize the "post-" prefix as it seems appropriate.

So my questions are:

1. Would you rather call the subgenre "Post-Sludge Metal" in our database? Or perhaps you have another idea we could consider?

2. Would you rather simply do away with the subgenre altogether & put all of these releases under the Post-Metal tag given that there are so few Post-Metal releases that fall outside of the Sludge realm? Then any releases that possess enough legitimate Sludge to warrant it can have a dual tag of Post-Metal & Sludge Metal. Essentially it'd be the same way we do things with Progressive Metal for example.

Feel free to share your open opinions on this as I'm very open to everyone's ideas here.

Technically Atmospheric Sludge Metal is only a part of the one clan (i.e. The Infinite). Subgenres can only be a part of one clan in our database. We manually add each Atmospheric Sludge Metal release to The Fallen as well when creating the release in the database so that it resides in both clans.

I'm definitely up for calling the subgenre "Post-Sludge Metal", and I think it should be just a post-metal subgenre, so any "Post-Sludge Metal" releases would be removed from The Fallen except if they're also "Sludge Metal (Conventional)".

Andi, let's explore that theory a little bit further. In your opinion, is Post-Sludge Metal a complete one-off that should be treated differently to the rest of the main genres? How would you suggest we handle post-black metal releases for example? Or post-death metal releases? Would you create another post-x subgenre for those? Please be aware that there's no wrong answer here.

Once again, post-sludge has the slow tempo and harsh vocals of regular sludge, but otherwise, it puts its focus on the intense atmosphere, lengthy structures, and crescendo themes of post-metal, all that more superior to the sludgy aspects. With a lot more in common with post-metal, that's why I think it should be treated as more of an Infinite subgenre than The Fallen. For post-black metal, it's more related to blackgaze bands like Alcest and Deafheaven than atmospheric black metal, with the latter subgenre more synth-oriented than the dreamy ambience of post-metal. You wouldn't call bands like Summoning and Burzum "post-metal", now would you? For post-death metal, there are only 4 releases here that mix post-metal and death metal, so that wouldn't qualify as a real subgenre.

Another post-x subgenre, huh? How about post-hardcore! Just kidding. Haha

I'm not sure you completely understood my question Andi as I wasn't really asking about whether post-black metal or post-death metal are legitimate subgenres or how you'd define them. (For the record though, there are plenty of post-black metal releases out there that aren't associated with blackgaze.) I was really asking if Post-Sludge Metal is the only post-x subgenre that's deserving of it's own category in your opinion &, if so, why. From what you've written I'm gathering that you probably do think it's the only one that's significant enough but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. (I'm not saying you're wrong on that by the way.)

The next question I'll ask is if you think that if we adjusted the functionality of the releases page to a) allow you to search on releases that have multiple specified subgenres (like Post-Metal & Sludge Metal) & b) allow to you to choose to search on releases that ONLY have your specified subgenres (so you could select releases that only have Post-Metal & not releases that have both Sludge Metal AND Post-Metal) it would serve the purpose just as well? Would we still need a Post-Sludge Metal subgenre if that was the case?

Post-sludge metal should certainly have its own category in order to be distinguished from post-metal or sludge metal releases, and it's more significant and easier to see which genre it's most likely to stay in than a subgenre label like post-black metal that's torn between two subgenres (atmospheric black metal and blackgaze). Now let's say there are releases like Isis' The Red Sea that have both the Post-Metal and Sludge Metal tags but DON'T say "Atmospheric Post-Sludge Metal", they probably have both genres dominant without necessarily being just a subgenre where one genre stands out more than the other. So the Post-Sludge Metal subgenre would still make sense if you're looking for a style of post-metal where sludge is only secondary, which is basically what Post-Sludge is.

Thanks for clarifying Andi. I appreciate the open feedback.

Has anyone else got any opinions on this topic?

I think what the site calls it is less important than what it does with it. Whether it's named atmospheric sludge or post-sludge I don't much care, but the clan system gives the site a unique issue with the genre as to whether it's a Fallen, Infinite or both subgenre. As the guy responsible for compiling the Fallen playlist each month I don't really feel that atmo/post or whatever-sludge fits the overall Fallen aesthetic that well and is much more post-metal than sludge (usually) and would fit better in the Infinite. Obviously if a release contains a significant amount of genuine sludge metal then a dual clan designation is fine. Since I have been compiling the playlist I have sometimes been frustrated by having to include a lot of atmo-sludge as I feel other, more Fallen-specific genres, have suffered at it's expense (I'm not complaining about the music itself, just it's suitability for the clan I am trying to represent with the playlist) and personally I would be happier to see it reside solely in the Infinite. I think someone who is massively into atmospheric sludge would be more likely to enjoy the progressive and avant-garde music of the Infinite than doom, death doom, funeral doom, trad doom, gothic metal and conventional sludge of the Fallen. After a recent conversation between Daniel and I, I currently don't program the genre into the Fallen playlist so if it isn't getting covered by the Infinite playlist then it is getting no playlist exposure. Obviously if everyone else feels differently I am happy to go along.

he next question I'll ask is if you think that if we adjusted the functionality of the releases page to a) allow you to search on releases that have multiple specified subgenres (like Post-Metal & Sludge Metal) & b) allow to you to choose to search on releases that ONLY have your specified subgenres (so you could select releases that only have Post-Metal & not releases that have both Sludge Metal AND Post-Metal) it would serve the purpose just as well? Would we still need a Post-Sludge Metal subgenre if that was the case?

I do like the prospect of filtering releases that only have all your selected genres/sub-genres. Currently if I search for releases tagged black metal and doom metal I get all black metal and all doom metal releases when what I want is black/doom releases, so this is a great solution for multi-genre releases that don't have their own sub-genre like blackened doom or gothic death doom (both of which should have in my opinion, but that's a discussion for another day I guess).

For whatever it's worth, my feeling is that "post-metal" is its own thing, and that "atmospheric sludge metal" is a largely redundant term, as a specific subgenre anyway.

I tend to view it similarly to post-thrash metal: initially there was a style for which that fit, but over time it developed into its own thing, "groove metal", and while there were still obviously thrash roots throughout the genre, it couldn't really be seen as a simple branch of thrash anymore.

My two cents is that I agree that cutting the ties with The Fallen makes sense both stylistically & logistically but I don't really see much point in keeping Post-Sludge Metal separate from the rest of Post-Metal as 95% of people are referring to the sludge variety when they think of the term "Post-Metal" anyway. In fact, I don't think there's really much of a Post-Metal genre without it in all honesty.

It's worth noting that making any changes in these areas will require some major database rework (even just changing the name to Post-Sludge Metal surprisingly) so at the moment this is all hypothetical. Keep the feedback coming & I'll discuss any changes that the group collaboratively agrees to with Ben.

Sorry to say that I won't be posting this in The North as was my original intent.

Alcest - Les chants de l’aurore (2024)

Genres: Post-Metal, Shoegaze

Subgenres: Post-Rock, Blackgaze, Dream Pop

Once again we have a fine example of Alcest challenging the very notion of evil in the black metal sound.  There will be, however, some debate as to how "black" this album really is, considering that the usage of the genre seems to be limited to certain artistic choices between songs.  In the opener, Komorebi, the blackness that helps to open the song is overshadowed by epic choir vocals like something out of a Hans Zimmer score or a Celtic new age album.  However, L'envol isn't afraid to follow up the new age vocals that take the final act with a direct assault of atmo-black metal and kickstart another uplifting and catchy piece of pure Alcest.  Neige's vocals are just as clear and crystalline as ever.  Thanks to its incredibly cheerful approach, you can look back on a song and think to yourself, "this was eight minutes long!?"  It still spends more time focusing on the post-metal, though.  If you want straight up blackgaze, then Améthyste is the way to go.  You can get just as lost in the atmosphere as you do in the rhythms.

Kickstarting the second half is the last of the two singles, the first being L'envol.  Flamme Jumelle is a post-rock track that carries all the themes through a lighter, more accessible rock sound but manages to maintain the Alcest appeal perfectly, even when incorporating the mesmerizing tremelo-picking.  I can see this being an Alcest stape for future concerts.  Next is a piano and violin semi-instrumental (don't worry, it's only three minutes long), Réminiscence, which features Neige vocalizing in ways that just make me wanna effing meditate.  The incorporation of new age elements was a spot-on choice.  Next is L'Enfant de la Lune, which isn't quite as cutesy as the name would suggest, but makes for a good post-metal track that focuses on anthemic energy.  It carries a heavily noisy approach but never really steers into blackgaze.  Thankfully, this decision made the song more unique to the album as its approach was used similarly in Améthyste.  We end things with L’adieu, which stays soft, ambient and serene throughout the whole five minutes, relying entirely on the sunset calm to recall the imagerey of that album cover in a more realistic fashion.  Perfect ending.

It must be mentioned that Alcest is NOT, I repeat, NOT, trying anything that new.  Just because there's less blackgaze on this album than before doesn't mean it's new for them.  They're essentially repeating the less blackened songs of their past albums.  The one time they changed their style, there was a little backlash, even though the album was alright.  And if you ever read one of my reviews, you'd likely know that I'm the guy who promotes trying new thing and typically hates copying the hits.  The thing is, Alcest's structuring of compositions and rhythms is certainly not conventional, and because of this, five albums of great blackgaze just isn't enough.  Pair this with the fact that there are very few in this wonderful gimmick genre that can butt heads with the likes of Alcest and Deafheaven, and you may find yourself running back to this essential French band for more and more.  Some say Sadness can, but is three bands really enough?  But this album still isn't blackgaze, really.  It's a further exercise in pretty atmospheres that's even less distracted by the depression and evil often associated with black metal.

So time for the four questions:

1. What is the goal of this album?  Seems to be an exercize in uplifting summery atmosphere rather than a blackgaze album, so the goal must be a slightly new direction that fans will still get behind.

2. Does it meet its goal?  Well as an Alcest fan who just read some ratings after the album finished, I can guarantee that this is a major yes.

3. What did the album sacrifice or neglect to meet its goal?  Really, the fact that this new direction is slight means there's some unoriginality involved.

4. Are the sacrifices made up for by other aspects of the album?  Considering that the album still meets my standards for variety, atmosphere, rhythmic prowess, etc., I'm gonna say yes.

So this Alcest album is a grand reminder of what Alcest is capable of, but if you look at it closely, you'll see the band wants to go for something a little new.  Nevertheless, they still put passion in it and are aware of their skills.  I can see this being argued as a contender for best metal album of the year by the masses.  I don't think I'd go that far (my current choice is Coagulated Bliss), but I've been waiting for the new Alcest since Spiritual Instinct, and now I'll be even more eagerly awaiting the eight studio album.  Les chants de l’aurore cancelled out all my worries that Alcest lost its potency, even if their "new ideas" are technically reorganized rehashes of past ones.

96/100

The Ocean - Pelagial (2013)

Genres: Post-Metal, Prog Metal

Subgenres: Atmo-Sludge Metal, Post-Rock, Metalcore, Death Metal

I'm glad I'm taking this time to go over older albums I've heard for the sake of rearranging some things on my charts.  This was started by a willingness to explore the catalog of Metal Blade, which includes listening to the Metal Blade albums I've already heard for different reasons, such as The Ocean's popular Pelagial, which I've planned on going back to for a while.  Now despite being part of the Infinite clan on Metal Academy, that's mostly for the prog and the avantgarde.  Post-metal isn't generally my thing, but I can spot the good stuff.

The first thing that must be noted is that unlike most post-metal albums, there is certainly not a level of clearcut repetition going on for the sake of exploring overlong ambient textures.  Leave that to Isis and let The Ocean do whatever they want.  I mean let's be honest: Disequillibrated is a death metal song in the same vein as Gojira.  Like past Ocean albums you can sense instances of post-hardcore and metalcore inserted easily, like an off-white patch on a white quilt.  Despite the extremities, The Ocean never forgets that they're making atmo-metal, so there's plenty of time to chill.  As Boundless Vasts starts off heavy and ends its three minute half by quickly getting more and more serene, takes us through a chilling but ambient journey into instrumental deaths while our singer screams like he's trapped at the bottom of the abyss.  Clever work.  Most of these songs are around average length, but there are a couple beautiful segues and two nine-minute tracks near the end.  Let Them Believe may not change things up progressively, but as a post-metal track there's just enough ongoing mutation to keep exploring the oceanic themes.  As well, I completely adore the fact that the eneded the album with a seriously doomy sludge song.

Even though this is definitely a prog album, there is no limit to how accessible this is.  Ironically, this album doesn't border on the questionable nature of the prog tag like some Rush and Dream Theater albums that many metalheads can name.  You can easily take songs like the joining Impasses and The Wish in Dreams and probably play them at work on the same playlist as one with Zep's Ramble On.  This is not only because the band excels with melodicism, but the decisions they make bear a flawless alchemic formula of the post-rock and extreme metal elements even with highly-melodic piano is being played at the same time as death metal screams.

I won't call this a sludge album anymore, but as a post-metal album this is likely my new number one, depending on how I define it and whether or not I'd give the tag to Through Silver in Blood by neurosis.  Pelagial fits every standard of mine for a perfect album.  it sets out to create atmospheres perfectly while balancing out a number of genres in one of the single most consistent deliveries I've ever heard, as well as remaininh 100% accessible in its melodies while testing the borders of extreme metal and prog.  I'm especially happy that I'm currently moving this up to my number 2 prog metal album of all time, as I was afraid that having the top two be the same band (Symphony X) seemed like fanboyism.

100