Gator's Forum Replies

Not a great deal, but one of my best friends does and Detroit is the host of Movement which I think is the biggest EDM festival in the United States

Review limit per "x" period would be my idea for submission.  How many members actually read the reviews that have been made since their last visit?  I know if I log in and there's a couple since my last visit (usually once a day as a minimum) I will take the time to leaf through what has been written to see if there's anything to pique my interest.  When I log in and the visible list is off the page and it is by the same member (and I have been that member at some point I am sure) I just leave the words to the sands of time or for someone with more patience than me to read through them.

Whilst I accept that reviews are a core part of MA there is a danger of them not really holding much influence if they are permitted to be shoved out like some conveyor belt-style operation.  I think established members are sensible about this (although not without exception either) and so it may be something to consider if the site does get busier with the additional marketing that is happening.  I think it makes the site look less active to some degree.  Personally, I have looked at many forums and thought "one person is posting here based on the last active threads" and gone off elsewhere.

Still of course nothing to stop the same problem if you have say a max of 4 reviews every 24 huors and nobody else posts once the member who last did their max returns with a fresh quota.  Still think it needs some control however.

If this becomes a thing. I will leave. 

Deathcade from Nocturnal Depression is in my opinion the best Depressive Black Metal offering of all time. Hell It's my favorite black metal album of all time. That's where I would point you Sonny. It's a compilation of their best songs but re-recorded with better production. Lifelovers' Pulver is pretty damn good too.

Silencer is indeed polarizing, I'm not even a huge fan of it myself, but I recognize it as a major album within the subgenre. 

I absolutely do, and to be honest I'm not sure what that fourth one would be.  Lets see;

1. The Fallen-Easily my first choice as I am a massive doom head.

2. The Horde-My love for Old School Death Metal runs deep.

3. The North-I like Black Metal, but I LOVE DSBM, which seams to be neglected on this site-not a single clan challenge features the likes of Nocturnal Depression, Xasthur, Lifelover, or Silencer

So that leaves us with: 

The Pit-There is a lot of good thrash and power groove out there, there is also a lot of mediocre and bad shit in there.
The Gateway-I don't exactly love the stuff in there, but I'm a school teacher and my students love that stuff. It might be a worthwhile pursuit to relate better to them.
The Infinite-It would certainly be interesting, but I fear a lot of pretentious drawn out technicality for it's own sake kind of stuff. Yucky.
The  Revolution-I only really like the absolute heaviest bands this has to offer. 
The Guardians-The neutral/default choice. I love traditional and classic metal, but I hate Power and goddamned Symphonic Metal with every fiber of my being-it might be fun to tee off on that stuff though.
The Sphere-This is the smallest clan on site right now, but it is my wife's absolute favorite music, so I hear it when she's calling the shots. I don't always like it, but it's always interesting. 

Probably between the Pit, The Sphere, and The Guardians. Care to try to steer me?

If you have not heard "I Don't wanna be me" I would throw that your way. It still has Type-O all over it, but it's a shorter song with a punk rock composition rather than the lengthy slow material you would often associate with them.

Just checked out "I Don't wanna be me" and guess what, I liked it. It sounds a bit like early Sisters of Mercy - yes, I actually love gothic rock, but not gothic metal so much - go figure. I'm also very keen on old-school punk rock and hardcore, so the punky feel to this is actually right up my street. So now I like two TON tracks - we're really getting somewhere!

Although I haven't really listened to Type O Negative for a few years, I still enjoy that track. "I Don't Wanna Be Me" is one of their most upbeat tracks, as opposed to their usual slow gothic doom, and one of my favorite bands Trivium made a cover of that song.

I need to listen to more Trivium. "A Gunshot to the Head of Tribulation" is such a kickass song that I've recently appreciated. The lyrics are really awesome and empowering. 

If you'd like to start your Trivium journey, my personal recommendation to you is the album In Waves.

Yes I would agree. That is a heavy psychedilic offering. 

I kind of agree with your views on the symphonic metal bands, but SubRosa are very much not in that style. They are far doomier than any of those symphonic bands. Check out More Constant Than the Gods.

I think doom metal is very inclusive for women, with loads of bands having female members and not just vocalists, but even when they are singers, the likes of Windhand's Dorthia Cotrrell and Acid King's Lori S. are nothing like Tarja and co.

I grew up with The Runaways and have several of their albums on vinyl from the time. Girlschool I saw a million times during the NWOBHM era - they were on tour almost constantly and were tons better live than on record.

I do quite like Savage Master - have you listened to Smoulder, they are similar, but maybe more epic doom leaning.

We I get done with my homework-writing reviews for clans I will come back and listen to SubRosa and Smolder. Windhand is pretty good, and I forgot to mention Jex Thoth. I tried to get into Acid King many many times, and I just don't click with it.

We need a place for live chat. Like an in-site chat room, or a discord with different channels for each clan. I can built the discord.

If you have not heard "I Don't wanna be me" I would throw that your way. It still has Type-O all over it, but it's a shorter song with a punk rock composition rather than the lengthy slow material you would often associate with them.

Just checked out "I Don't wanna be me" and guess what, I liked it. It sounds a bit like early Sisters of Mercy - yes, I actually love gothic rock, but not gothic metal so much - go figure. I'm also very keen on old-school punk rock and hardcore, so the punky feel to this is actually right up my street. So now I like two TON tracks - we're really getting somewhere!

Although I haven't really listened to Type O Negative for a few years, I still enjoy that track. "I Don't Wanna Be Me" is one of their most upbeat tracks, as opposed to their usual slow gothic doom, and one of my favorite bands Trivium made a cover of that song.

I need to listen to more Trivium. "A Gunshot to the Head of Tribulation" is such a kickass song that I've recently appreciated. The lyrics are really awesome and empowering. 

I also really enjoy the Sisters of Mercy, Drive around the abandoned industrial areas of Detroit in the early morning listening to Dominion/Mother Russia. Is a real treat. This Corrosion and Vision Thing are great tracks too. 

The Misfits fucking rule, and always have. I even like the controversial Michael Graves stuff. 

Female Vocals-This is going to ruffle feathers, but I almost always hate it. It's not a "boys club" or "woman hater" thing either. My problems with it are:
1) I simply don't like high clean vocals. Black Metal shrieks are fine, though I do much prefer death metal guttorals and baritones. I don't like high-tenor male singers usually either.
2) A lot of times that singer is the whole focus of the band. You have an otherwise unremarkable/generic sounding band, but "classically trained operatic soprano" so now it's better?
3) These bands tend to attract non-metal fans. "Yeah I like Nightwish, because Tarja Turunen is beautiful and such a great singer, but I hate metal." I've heard that so many times that I've gone bitter. 
4) Evanessence was a war crime against music. 

That being said. Female-fronted bands I do like and recommend.

Savage Master-Stacy Savage: Sonically they sit right between Judas Priest and Slayer. They have an awesome stage show that features Stacey looking very cool and commanding, backed by a lot of big dudes in executioners hoods. It plays wonderfully on stage. "Ripper in Black", "With Whips and Chains", "Queen Satan", and "Looking for a Sacrifice" are all stellar. I see this band every single time they come to town. Stacy is a national treasure.

The Runaways-Joan Jett and Lita Ford-... two words "Cherry Bomb"

Girlschool-Do you like Motorhead? Ever wonder would it would be like if they were an all female unit? Girlschool answers all your questions. They have one album, but it's great. "Race with the Devil"

In this Moment-Maria Brink. This band was white-hot a couple of years back, and then they took some time off. If I remember properly the time off was because Maria was with child. They are back on tour now, just released an Album Called "GODMODE" which I've sampled. It seams alright but you want to go listen to BLOOD for their best stuff. "Blood", "Sick Like Me", "Adrenalize", "Whore"

There are more but that's off my head right now.

I'd also like to draw some attention to Liz Buckingham, Jo Bench, and Lena Abe. These ladies are not the front people for their bands, but they excellent musicians none-the-less that bring unique talents to their respective bands; Electric Wizard, Bolt Thrower, and My Dying Bride.

Glad you enjoyed that select track from Type O. My favorite Type O song is "Pyretta Blaze" because it starts off sounding a lot like Black Sabbath's "Into the Void" and then transitions to very nearly pop chorus. I enjoy those things about Pete's song writing. Since you liked the punkier offering, you might check out Carnivore. Pete fronted Carnivore prior to forming Type O. The content is New York Hardcore Punk with um... "interesting" lyrical choices. 

I have not read all 26 pages of discussion here, so I'm largely going off the content of the 1st post, and I apologize if there is re-treading here.

My interpretation here is that there are two objectives: Draw the line between very hard rock and roll, and heavy metal, and then identify the first 10 metal albums.

I think a lot of us ponder the question of where Hard Rock ends and where Heavy Metal ends. It's definitely something my friends and I have drive ourselves crazy over, but this is what we have mostly agreed upon.

2 critera: 
1) Does the band embrace itself as Heavy Metal?
2) Does Heavy Metal accept that band?

It's about consent in other words.

Pros of this solution: It excludes bands like Deep Purple, who vehemently rejected the Heavy Metal label. Ritchie Blackmore said in no uncertain terms that he hated heavy metal and thought it was a belligerent term that did not do his band justice. It also excludes bands like Ghost, who the mainstream often considers to be a metal band, but a great deal of metalheads would disagree. 

Cons: What I call the Motorhead problem: Lemmy Kilmister was steadfast that Motorhead was not a metal band, just a very loud and fast rock and roll band. Yet the man is damn near universally beloved by the metal community, and it just seams really sad to leave them out.  Motorhead isn't the only band in this position just an easy example of the problem.

Yet, that is where I am so far. 


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As far as identifying early heavy metal; there is a website already in existence: https://mapofmetal.com/ That attempts to chronical the most important metal releases in given sub-genres, including some of the heaviest pre-Black Sabbath rock and roll. We don't have to agree with what it says, but it's not a bad launch pad. 

Dan and Ben seam like damn cool dudes. I know now not to worry about it. I'll probably go back and try to add more bulk to my more lean reviews-not gonna lie sometimes its a real chore, but we'll get it done.

About Type O- I love that whole late 90s'-2000's Gothic Aesthetic. Something about being in formative years, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and Alison Hannigan (Willow). I just love everything about that. It's thick in their work and if you don't like it you probably aren't going to like Type-O, the 69 Eyes, Moonspell, etc. There is just no getting around it with those bands. 

However, if you have not heard "I Don't wanna be me" I would throw that your way. It still has Type-O all over it, but it's a shorter song with a punk rock composition rather than the lengthy slow material you would often associate with them. 

How do you feel about Danzig? 

I feel you on the low sounds. Good doom is like a warm blanket. I will have to look into Tangerine Dream-I'm intrigued. 

When it comes to the technical stuff I don't immediately hate it. I would say Tomb of the Mutilated is a fairly technical album, but it still has recognizable strong structure and hooks and I love that album. 

I don't like things like Brain Drill or Periphery where the whole stick is "look at how goddamn good I am at this instrument." I can play in those styles, and I've done it in the past, but I'd much rather listen to Cronos growl and smack his bass and play like a demon. 

I went back to Gorguts and did my thing. I don't know if you will like the thing, but I thinged my ass off.

Hi, Zero. Just read your review and although I may not have put it quiite so bluntly, I actually agree with your view of excessively technical metal. I am over sixty and have been a metalhead since I was 14, so remember all too well when metal was treated with contempt by fans of other styles of music for being simplistic and dumb, so it rubs me up the wrong way too when some devotees of technical and complex metal look down on fans of "simpler" forms (ie metal with actual songs). It's bad enough when outsiders do it, but it feels like a betrayal when so-called metal brothers do it. But Ben was right, your new review has given everyone a far better insight into who you are and where you're coming from than the original one-liner. For the record, I thought Gorguts' first two albums were pretty good, but when they ditched the songs for a purely technical form of expression on the highly-rated Obscura they completely lost me.

As a massive fan of funeral doom metal and judging by some of your comments so far regarding it, I suppose we won't always see eye to eye, but it's good to meet you and I hope you enjoy your time here. Welcome.

Thank you so much man. That truly means a lot to me. I just didn't know if my brand of negative review would be well received. I've had the misfortune of being around moderation elsewhere (looking at you Reddit) that would chalk up any kind of negativity as toxic trolling, so I had learned to reel myself in. I was genuinely concerned that I was gonna wake up banned this morning. 

I absolutely love funeral doom, I just prefer the "pretty" stuff with the violins and keys as opposed to the oppressive wall of sound synthesizer approach. 

Pretty sweet that we got two newbies who love reviewing albums in the last 3 days.

LOL. Kosie is my wife.

I went back to Gorguts and did my thing. I don't know if you will like the thing, but I thinged my ass off.

The idea of keeping it short was my way of showing respect for things like that. The most respectful thing I could have done was not leave any kind of review there, and I would have prefered to do that, but the current structure of the site makes it mandatory to do so. I would absolutely jump on any kind of alternative way forward but it simply isn't there as of right now. I am familiar with Colored Sands and it is not a first time listen for me (it's over a decade old). I also know the weight that it and Gorguts carry in death metal circles. Was the right thing to do write an extended essay detailing how much I dislike it? That to me seams the negative, disrespectful, and toxic thing to do, and a good way to butt heads, but I can absolutely go and do that for you. It's not going to be pretty, nice, or productive. Do you still want it?

Edit, to late now brother. I'm going to give it to you. Gonna dedicate it to you too. Strap in. This me respecting your wish that I do a deep analysis. 

Gotcha bro I gues if the site has a heavy focus on reviews we need clearer guidlines both about the rating system and the criteria that needs to be covered in a review. Otherwise we are all just taking shots in the dark. The numbers and such aren't any good if we don't some kind of universal understanding.

My Scoring system is something like this.

.5-Absolute garbage that I never want to hear again,  usually something about it sonically offensive or it's just extremely dull.

1.-It's bad but it's not sonic torture

1.5-It's bad but it's so bad that it has a comedic effect and I'm entertained with it if for all the wrong reasons.

2.0-It's an otherwise average affair but is plagued by some detriment like bad production (bad not raw, raw can be good). 

2.5-The album is utterly average, it's not good or bad, it is something that could be inoffensively left into a playlist, but nobody would miss it's absence. In someways this is the worst thing I can say about a piece.

3.0-This is an average offering but it's from a band that I like, or a subgenre that I like so much that even the mediocre stuff suits me fine.

3.5-Either a low performing album from a great band, or an album where an otherwise unremarkable band punched above their weight.

4.0-This is a good album for the general metal audience, and a great album for fans of it's clan.

4.5-This is a great album for both general metal audiences and fans of the clan.

5.0-This is an album that I would enthuastically reccommend to anyone inside or outside of metalheads.

I'm a bit perplexed by this statement of yours: "They weren't intended to be easy to complete. That's why they're called "challenges" after all."

That reads to me like you chose albums that were intentionally difficult to get into, is that the case? If so, I'm not sure why you go for that as opposed to just bringing out the best stuff, but this is your house so I'd still roll with it.

Predominantly a Review Site?

From the FAQ: 
What is Metal Academy?

Metal Academy is first and foremost a community site where fans can talk about all things metal and discover new releases and friends. It was created by the brothers behind the Metal Academy podcast, which is a podcast that chronologically explores the history of metal music.

I came here to be part of a community, make friends, talk metal (not rate and rank it), and discover new releases. There is nothing in that description that indicates it's "predominantly a review site", and if it is just about that then I came to wrong place. I'm going to ask Dan via PM what the aim is here. 

As far as repeated listens go. I am of the strongly held opinion that good music is simply good. If you have to force yourself to like something, it's not good. You are just convincing yourself to like something that you really do not like for clout. Think about your absolute favorite albums-the ones that really do it for you, the stuff that hits you right in the heart. I'm betting you didn't need to hear it over and over. Keep in mind I am a doom-metal guy, I understand that an album sometimes needs to establish an atmosphere and warm up, but even then it's not difficult to know pretty quickly if you like what it's building toward or not. 

and lastly, Where are the standards posted? I did look for for a format or a criteria, but the closest thing I found was the very loose "Also note that reviews do not have to be essays, but they must include personal views based on personal experience."

My personal experience with some of this stuff it that it isn't really anything special. I'm on a quest for the cream of the crop, in world where we have youtube, spotify, bandcamp, etc. why settle for less than the top of the mountain? Why give an essay and an hour to some 2.5/3 album when there is a 5 out there somewhere waiting to be discovered? Feel me?

Hi.

Personally, I love going into detail.  But when I need to write a review for a clan challenge's average album, I often use the more average albums and compare them to like albums in order to fully explain it.  This helps out with an extra five sentences or so and makes the review acceptable enough to complete a clan challenge.

If comparing mediocre albums to one another to highlight subtle differences in the ways they are mediocre makes you happy then god bless and go for it, but it's not an appealing way for me to spend my limited recreational time. 

I hear you on that, but my approach is this; why spend a 1,000 words to say what can be said in 10? As far as pacing, I've been listening to metal for a LONG time, and like the description says; the clan lists deliberately use a lot of the bigger albums. The result being that I've already heard most of them, some of them many many times. The most common rating I give is a 2.5 which signifies average, most things are average, that's why it's the average. Along with that comes the idea that about half of the stuff is below average. 

If a piece of music is just average to me, I don't have feelings for it that warrant a lengthy response. There are only so many ways to say "This was OK."

If the music is below average to my ears, I don't think it's a cool thing to write a lengthily tirade and tear it apart. To someone else it might be very cherished. Additionally I am a bassist, and I know how difficult, time consuming, and expensive it is just to get something recorded. I don't feel right bashing another artists art simply because I don't resonate with it. 

If I had my druthers I wouldn't write a review at all for anything scoring below a 4 (If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything). However, as it stands that is the only path I'm aware of to lock in your starting clans, and make additional ones available at this time, so I try to keep my reviews of 0-3 stars fairly brief. Once I get the homework done and can freely choose what I review you will see more fleshed out takes.

The other issue is when an album has a legacy status. We are all on a metal forum, do I really need to tell you that Black Sabbath's Master of Reality is a good album? What could I possibly say about such an icon that hasn't been said since it's release 53 Years ago?

These are the questions? scenarios? I wrestle with when I write reviews. Believe me, I don't like coming away from an hour long listen (which can be a REALLY long hour if we are talking about early funeral doom) with little to say, but I can't manufacture words for words sake. 

What's more ill-conceived, a short concise statement that does the job, or a rambling for rambling sake? Especially when we all have access to the medium itself a few short mouse clicks away?

I've been thinking about all of this a lot the last couple of days. What do you think? How do you approach writing your reviews?

The latest offering from My Dying Bride, "A Mortal Binding" is really good. Check that one out.

I am a HUGE Type-O fan, and still a fan of the 95-2000 gothic aesthetic in general. VTM: Bloodlines anyone? Variety is the spice of life. 

Satisfied with my top 20 for now.

Figured it out. In Progress.