New site ideas (Points System / Subgenre Change Proposals) - request for feedback
Hi all. As Metal Academy has always been a community site, I want to let you guys have some input on the potential new site. Below are two links that will take you to detailed explanations of aspects we don't currently have here at Metal Academy.
The first one is a Points System, where site members can earn Clan and Global points.
Click the below
The second one is a (mostly) automated replacement for the Hall of Judgement. Basically it's a subgenre (and therefore potentially genre and clan) changing system. Clan points and Global points earned give users weighted influence on proposed subgenre changes, rewarding active / knowledgeable site members.
Click the below
Anyway, the descriptions are detailed, so I hope you'll all take the time to read through them and click on the various sections. Is this all too much? Probably! But I've never done things in halves. If I'm ever going to make this new site a reality, I want it to be fucking perfect! I never want to have to redesign it again.
Let me know what you think.
Interesting stuff Ben and food for thought for sure. My initial thoughts:
I am not fundamentally opposed to a points-based system, but I do forsee issues with it. Members becoming obsessed with point acquisition rather than having genuine enthusiasm for the music being the most obvious, for example writing garbage reviews that add nothing to the conversation in order to accrue points, posting a million times in the "What are you listening to now" threads with just an album name or making a multitude of posts that have nothing to do with metal.
That said, though, if you were intent on introducing a points system then this seems like a very well-thought-out way to do it. I don't think votes on cover art should count towards clan points, though, as you can rate an awful lot of covers in a very short time without knowing anything about the clan's genres, making it the most obvious area for abuse. The Revolution, for example has nearly 6000 releases currently and I could rate every cover with very little thought and zero knowledge of the musical content, but I could accrue 6000 points within that clan - the equivalent of 500 reviews, when in reality I have only rated 32 Revolution releases.
The new "Hall of Judgement" sounds like a very good evolution of that concept and would, hopefully, lead to better and more timely outcomes. It is all looking very exciting to be sure.
I would highlight the same concerns around the points system in that there would need to be some controls on what is a genuine “accrual” contribution. Years ago, over on my other forum, the owner had such a system in and the member with the highest number of points each month won some merch of their choice from limited lines in the shop. First of all, posts in the “…Listening to” thread stopped contributing to the points tally and pretty soon then because nobody posted anywhere else, the system overall became redundant. A lot of us also post our reviews both against the release page and also in the relevant forum thread (especially if a feature release) so there’s a risk of double counting I would guess.
I also agree on the cover art votes. I rate a lot of album covers and can often have no idea what is going on in the album, sub-genre, genre or clan for that matter. The Hall of Judgement has always been my least favourite feature of the site. Even though it has grown on me slowly over the years, I still find it hard to see much value in it, but I can see the appeal for others.
Firstly, I want to reward activity on the site. If people want to be involved in conversations or rate loads of album covers to farm points, well as long as they're doing those things responsibly (and it's easy to tell when they're not), then I see that as a good thing. Any community site can only be better if more members are being more active. I've attempted to give each action type appropriate points (such as 1 point for rating a cover and 12 points for writing a review). I can easily adjust the numbers if people are abusing things, but again, if lots of people started rating covers, that would make the site better, not worse.
That said, what I wanted to do here is make sure that this sort of farming activity has limited impact on things that really matter, such as the proposed subgenre voting system.
The Primary voting weighting factor only takes into account ratings and reviews. It does not take into account things like forum responses or cover ratings. I wanted a clan members weighted input to represent their knowledge of that clan, as much as that is possible.
The Secondary bonus does take a member's global point total into account, including the forum posts and cover ratings, but it's only a small bonus in the scheme of things. It's gravy, not the main meal.
I hope this clears things up a bit. I have a feeling from your messages that this distinct difference wasn't made clear. Or perhaps it was, and you still feel the same. Let me know.
Purely from a personal point of view, the fact that there are points awarded for various actions will not make any difference to me, as I will most likely continue interacting with the site in much the same way as I do now. I am sure there are people out there who will feel motivated by some kind of reward system and good luck to 'em, but I would never view it as much more than a background feature. I am quite comfortable with my own level of involvement, but I guess if it gets more people interacting it may make things more interesting (although we have had mixed results with that in the past!) I guess I am just a little concerned that a points-based meritocracy will cause an increase in assholery on the site.
Much like Vinny, I have never been that invested in the Hall as I often find sub-genre micro-management to be tedious and not something on which I enjoy focussing too much. Is it heavy, doom, black, death, thrash (the five alchemical elements) or a mixture of the above is usually enough for me!
I'll also continue using the site the same way, though if anyone wants to gain points for the albums they listen to and the covers they check out, they can do that, just as long as they don't abuse the system. As for the Subgenre Change Proposals, it really does look like a great evolution for the Hall of Judgement. Instead of just submitting it via a forum thread, we can just go to an album's release page to propose adding or removing a subgenre for other members to vote in a limited amount of time and see if it reaches enough upvotes for the admins to decide the outcome. So if that new feature goes well, we would have more immediate voting participation and better results. Anyway, exciting new features, and all the more reason to look forward to the new site. Awesome work, Ben!