Daniel's Forum Replies
Yeah, despite my own feelings on Budgie's metal credentials, I feel that their debut is talked about as being a metal release often enough to qualify for investigation in this thread. I recall it being the heaviest of their 1970's releases too.
While we explore "Kingdom Come", I'd also like to seek nominations for the 1971 records we'll be investigating. Black Sabbath's "Master of Reality" is a given & I feel that we probably should do Budgie's self-titled debut as well given the general feeling around that record. These are the other potential candidates:
Sir Lord Baltimore - "Sir Lord Baltimore"
Flower Travellin' Band - "Satori"
Thin Lizzy - "Thin Lizzy"
Deep Purple - "Fireball"
Anyone see anything they think is definitely metal & feel strongly about there?
How about "Hard Rain Fallin"? Metal or not? What subgenre is it?
There's no metal here as far as I'm concerned. It's pure hard rock.
Coroner - "Death Cult" demo (1986)
The Swiss tech thrash legends began in slightly more subdued style with this four-song demo tape I picked up back in my tape trading days, mainly due to my interest in hearing a Tom G. Warrior fronted Coroner.I t's pretty well produced for an 80's thrash demo & you can hear all of the finer nuances. Stylistically we see Coroner still developing their sound with only "Spiral Dream" taking the more technical direction we'd hear on the band's debut album "R.I.P." the following year. Opener "Spectators of Sin" straddles both speed & thrash metal, the fairly flat instrumental "Aerial Combat" sits in the more complex end of traditional thrash & closer "The Invincible" (my personal favourite) alternates between slow doom metal & uptempo thrash. Warrior's vocals are the best thing about this release in my opinion but there's merit to the ambitious instrumentation too just quietly. Imagine the proggy heavy metal of Mercyful Fate, the speed/thrash of early Slayer/Destruction & the weighty grunt of Celtic Frost being topped off with some added complexity & you won't be far off the mark. "Death Cult" is one of the better European thrash demos of the 1980's in my opinion & is worth a couple of listens for fans of the band.
3.5/5
Before my transition to metal I was predominantly listening to hard rock & glam metal records with my dad. Stuff like Guns 'n' Roses, The Cult, Van Halen, Motley Crue, Def Leppard, Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, ZZ Top, Aerosmith, AC/DC, Bon Jovi, Poison, etc. Everything changed very quickly once I began high school in 1988 though as I became exposed to new people & a whole world of new music that I simply couldn't wait to explore. I basically went from being a young rocker to an obsessive death/black/grind nut in a year. I've done a lot of thinking about what the initial records that lured me over to metal were & I think I've come up with a pretty accurate timeline below.
In early 1988 I came across Motorhead's 1984 "No Remorse" double compilation album by accident more than anything else. I believe an older kid had given me a blank cassette so that I could rip him a copy of something in my collection & I accidently played it prior to copying over the top of it. I didn't know what I was listening to at the time but it didn't take me long to figure it out & I found myself really digging the unbridled intensity, particularly some of the less rocky, speed metal-oriented tracks like "Snaggletooth" & "Locomotive". I ripped the cassette before copying over it & gave it a fair flogging over the next few weeks. I came up with the idea for this thread while revisiting "No Remorse" yesterday actually.
Also in early 1988, one of my best mates in high school had an older brother that played guitar & would play us all sorts of cool stuff that we wouldn't have been exposed to otherwise. He introduced us to Judas Priest's highly divisive & seriously underrated 1986 tenth album "Turbo". As with the Motorhead compilation, this record served the purpose of a gateway between rock & metal really well given its synth-driven stadium vibe. There are a few real belters on that album & I still regard "Turbo Lover" & "Out In The Cold" as some of the finest examples of heavy metal I've ever heard still to this day. I actually think the album as a whole is pretty solid too & can't understand the flack it seems to cop.
That same mate's favourite band was Iron Maiden so I was exposed to all of their back catalogue in quick succession that year which saw me becoming somewhat of a Maiden nut myself. I'd start with purchasing 1986's "Somewhere In Time" & 1988's brand new "Seventh Son Of A Seventh Son" albums on cassette on the same day & they're still my favourite heavy metal records now. "Somewhere In Time" is the one that did (& does) it for me the most though so it's the one I want to include here. I believe I bought "Live After Death" on cassette only a couple of days later too just quietly.
The back end of 1988 would contain arguably the biggest event in my metal life. I'd notice Metallica's fourth album "...And Justice For All" sitting around number 50 on the Australian music charts a week or two after it was released & thought it sounded interesting so I sought out a dubbed cassette copy from an older school mate. I think it's fair to say that it absolutely blew me away & changed my life overnight. I simply couldn't believe what I was hearing & can distinctly remember playing the intro to the title track to Ben (who was actually only eleven at the time, not twelve) over & over as we laughed uncontrollably at the massive contrast between the sweet acoustic guitar parts & the crunching thrash metal they'd alternate between. "...And Justice For All" is still a top ten metal release for me overall & is also my favourite Metallica release.
After quickly purchasing everything Metallica had released on CD over the next couple of months, I was ready to find out what else thrash metal had to offer. I'd start by buying Megadeth's 1986 sophomore album "Peace Sells... But Who's Buying?" & 1988 third album "So Far, So Good... So What!" on cassette on the same day without having heard a second of them. I loved both of them & still do but "Peace Sells" would tear my fucking face off in a way that the follow-up couldn't quite manage so I'll go with it.
So that was the first five that converted me if I'm remembering correctly. Anthrax & Slayer were around the same time & once I discovered Slayer it was all over for me. I was all in, hook, line & sinker after that. By the end of 1989 I was obsessed with death/black/grind & starting to build up a collection that would see me beginning to tape trade more seriously shortly afterwards.
That’s so great Xephyr. I know how long & hard you’ve been working towards that outcome so I’m very please you can put it all behind you now with a positive result.
Please be advised that I have just completed the long & arduous process of removing the Atmospheric Sludge Metal subgenre from our database. The thinking was that it's really a combination of two different subgenres that reside in different clans which creates a logistical problem for us as a subgenre can only reside in one clan. Ben & I felt it made more sense to tag post-sludge metal releases with both the sludge metal & post-metal subgenres instead which is in line with how we do it for most other similar situations e.g. post-black metal, progressive metalcore, industrial death metal, etc. Any releases where you feel there isn't enough of either of those two subgenres can be actioned through the Hall of Judgement.
Ok, let's kick off our investigation of Sir Lord Baltimore's 1970 debut album "Kingdom Come" with the opening track "Master Hearrtache" then. Metal or not? What subgenre?
It's a hard rock track as far as I can see. No metal to speak of here.
Metallica - "Power Metal" demo (1982)
An unofficial fan-released demo that I used to have floating about back in the day which includes early versions of "Hit The Lights", "Jump In The Fire". The Mechanix" & "Motorbreath". The lineup is James Hetfield (vocals/rhythm guitar), Dave Mustaine (lead guitar), Ron McGovney (bass) & Lars Ulrich (drums). Metallica hadn't quite hit on thrash metal just yet & all of these tracks represent the less extreme inclusions from the "Kill 'Em All" album that would take the world by storm the following year. Mustaine was the clear star with his solos showcasing a fire in his belly that other bands were simply unable to match. The electric speed metal of "Hit The Lights" & the more controlled NWOBHM-inspired heavy metal of "Jump In The Fire" are clearly the standout tracks here with the other two sounding a little flat in comparison to their studio versions. With the "No Life Til Leather" demo now readily available with high-quality audio, I'd suggest that "Power Metal" is pretty inessential these days.
3/5
Motörhead - "No Remorse" compilation (1984)
An excellent double compilation album that represented my initiation with the London heavy rock icons back when I was a kid. The five or six unreleased & non-album tracks are mostly high-quality while the best-of selection is impeccable to say the least. It's an outstanding introduction to an essential player in the history of heavy music.
4/5
I don’t think there’s much in the way of psychedelia there either but those groovy down-tuned riffs you mentioned are as stoner metal as it gets in my opinion. I actually think there’s more stoner than there is heavy metal on this record.
This one’s an all-timer for me. Utterly mind-blowing.
I find this one to be a really solid track to be honest.
It would seem that everyone is comfortable that more than 40% of "Paranoid" is genuine metal thus far so I think we're fairly safe to pencil it into the chronological list of the earliest metal releases.
Besides, it's obvious that the people who attribute "prog" to different genre tags have different meanings
They shouldn't though in my opinion.
After thinking about it over the last few days, I don't think tagging a release with a broad, all-encompassing up-stream genre like "Metal" really accomplishes anything though to be honest. Genre-tags are really about drawing an appropriate audience to a release so they need to provide a broad overview of what people can expect to hear. Therefore, I've always thought that I should choose a tag that encompasses as much of the release as possible. If you ask yourself the question "Who will be more likely to enjoy this release?", is it ANY fan of metal or is it stoner metal fans? I would have thought that stoner fans are likely to enjoy the vast majority of this material, even if some of it sits outside of the metal spectrum. This concept is only made more relevant by our clan configuration & I'd suggest that The Fallen members are more in tune with this sound than The Guardians members are so the tag should reside in the group of genres attached to The Fallen in my opinion.
Why does progressive metal need to be overly technical though? Progressive & technical have two different meanings. Progressive house & progressive electronic aren't technical for example. Progressive rock isn't always technical either. Musicality is certainly promoted but technicality isn't essential. It's more about maintaining a more expansive musical mindset & artistic palate than other forms of music that's important in my opinion.
That leaves me with a result that looks like this for "Paranoid":
1. War Pigs - Stoner Metal
2. Paranoid - Heavy Metal
3. Planet Caravan - Psychedelic Folk
4. Iron Man - Traditional Doom Metal
5. Electric Funeral - Traditional Doom Metal/Stoner Metal
6. Hand of Doom - Stoner Rock
7. Rat Salad - Heavy Psych
8. Fairies Wear Boots - Heavy Psych
Based on those results, I'm comfortable with the album's metal credentials & are allocating it dual stoner metal & heavy psych tags in order to cover the majority of the sounds it contains. Once again, there's very little actual heavy metal on offer here as far as I can see so I feel that "Paranoid" is a better fit for The Fallen than it is for The Guardians. What do you guys think on that topic?
Unless anyone has any last minute nominations, we'll kick off our investigation into Sir Lord Baltimore's "Kingdom Come" album tomorrow.
What about "Fairies Wear Boots" then? Metal or not? What subgenre?
This one isn't that straight forward to be honest. I can see the argument for a metal tag but personally I think it sits more comfortably under heavy psych.
I disagree. I sit on the complete other side of the fence in that regard. Queensryche certainly aren't the most technical of prog artists but I feel that there's enough complexity & creativity in both the song-writing & production to warrant a prog tag, particularly as they don't sound much like your average heavy metal band.
Trouble - "Trouble" (1990)
My knowledge of Chicago doom legends Trouble was limited to their first couple of classic mid-1980’s albums up until deciding to investigate their highly regarded self-titled fourth album this week. I’m a big fan of 1984’s “Psalm 9” record while it’s follow-up from the following year “The Skull” was worth a few listens too. Interestingly though, “Trouble” seems to be regarded as more of a heavy metal release than a complete doomathon though which intrigued me. It’s often referred to as one of Trouble’s very best releases too so I was keen to see what it had to offer.
After giving “Trouble” a few spins over the last couple of days, I’ve found it to be another very well produced & executed metal bum from a band that really knows their stuff. It’s benefited from a nice, heavy sound with a crisp clarity & some solid performances. Front man Eric Wagner in particular delivers one of his best contributions. Unfortunately though, there were some unexpected challenges to be found for me in the stylistic direction of this album. You see, while it may not be something that’s been widely spoken about, “Trouble” is actually just as much of a stoner metal record as it is a heavy metal one, perhaps even more so. None of the ten tracks can accurately be described as doom metal, instead offering a groovy brand of down-tuned riffage that’s very similar to that which English doom merchants Cathedral would start to push a few years later. Now I’ve never been much of a fan of your groovier stoner metal model. In fact, it kinda urks me so I’ve struggled with most of “Trouble”. Only the more heavy metal inclined tracks like “The Wolf” & “E.N.D.” have managed to offer me much in the way of appeal along with the Beatles-inspired hard rocker “The Misery Shows (Act II)” so I can’t say that this has been a particularly rewarding experience overall. Perhaps it’s just a case of a record like this one simply not being any of my business. I think I’ll stick to Trouble’s doomier releases in future.
3/5
Be my guest Andi. Just bear in mind that my call on the metal credentials of “Empire” has nothing to do with how heavy the album is as hard rock can often be just as heavy as heavy metal in my opinion. In stating that the album doesn’t warrant a primary metal tag I’m simply saying that for the majority of the album the instrumentalists are employing rock techniques rather than metal ones.
Queensrÿche - "Empire" (1990)
The Washington progressive metal kings' fourth full-length is the first & only one of their records that I bought immediately upon release, fresh off the back of being blown away by the title track on underground metal radio. It's a beautifully produced record too with stunning performances from all of the contributors, particularly super-talented front man Geoff Tate. What I wasn't quite prepared for was the more commercially accessible sound that the band had opted for on this occasion though & it took a bit of adjusting to. You see, "Empire" isn't technically a metal record as it only contains a couple of metal tunes which also happen to be the highlights of the album (see "Empire" & "One & Only"). The rest of the record sits very much in the progressive rock & hard rock space, sounding kinda like a more complex version of "Hysteria"-period Def Leppard more than anything else. Now, that's not a problem in itself & there is no doubt some of Queensrÿche's best material to be found here in patches but there are some clear inconsistencies in the quality of the song-writing that I find to be an issue. The wins (like the wonderfully seep & stripped-back prog rocker "Della Brown") certainly outweigh the losses & make "Empire" worth exploring but radio-friendly tracks like "Jet City Woman", "Another Rainy Night (Without You)" & "Resistance" & "Hand on Heart" go a long way to convincing me that this was the least impressive Queensrÿche release to the time.
3.5/5
Various Artists - "Angola Prison Spirituals" (1959)
Make sure you submit your vote in the Hall of Judgement poll around that record’s avant-garde metal credentials if you haven’t already Andi.
How about "Rat Salad" then? Metal or not? What subgenre?
I'm going with heavy psych with a strong jazz-rock influence.
Now things start to get really interesting for the remainder of the tracklisting. What do you think of "Hand of Doom"? Metal or not? What subgenre?
Despite the doomy section at the start & end, I feel that this track simply "feels" more like rock than metal with the middle part sitting very clearly in the hard rock space. I'm gonna go with stoner rock on this one.
"Electric Funeral" then. Metal or not? If so, what subgenre?
Personally, I'd suggest that it's a heavily psychedelic dirge that's just as comfortable under the stoner metal or traditional doom metal tags.
The Hall of Judgement poll on the metal credentials of “Deep Purple in Rock” is evenly split at 3-3 at the moment which means that we’re gonna need quite a few more votes to achieve a clear majority & force a result. If you’re a member of The Guardians & are yet to submit a vote then I’d like to encourage you to participate.
This nomination has now been posted in the Hall of Judgement.
Yngwie Malmsteen - "Eclipse" (1990)
The first Yngwie record that I would buy upon release also happened to be his weakest to date. I don't recall having too much of a problem with it back in the day but in more recent times I'm finding myself struggling a bit. He's returned with an entirely new band (most notably missing the Johansson brothers) which has taken the more commercially accessible sound of "Odyssey" a little further for most of the album while attempting to balance it out with a few faster & more aggressive power metal numbers. It's the stuff that sits in between in the traditional heavy metal space that I really dig (see "Making Love", "Devil in Disguise", "What Do You Want", "Faultline") but I find the rest of the album to be pretty patchy, particularly the AOR/glam metal number "Save Our Love" which is nothing short of an atrocity. New frontman Goran Edman does a pretty reasonable job while keyboardist Mats Olausson struggles to compete with his well-known predecessor. The quality of the song-writing is noticeably weaker than on "Odyssey" with even the neoclassical metal instrumental title track falling short of the mark. "Eclipse" marks the first blemish on the guitarists resume for mine.
3/5
I also concur that Sir Lord Baltimore is just hard blues rock because I got a good Jimmy Hendrix vibe and such whereas if that's the case we would need to look into the 50's and 60's for some metal (which there probably is some underlying forgotten gem of a metal record then to be fair).
Outside of one clear Black Sabbath-inspired metal song, the influences are pretty obviously Jimi Hendrix-style psychedelic rock & Led Zeppelin's brand of blues/hard rock as far as I can see but I admit that there seems to be enough of a cross-section of opinions on "Kingdom Come" that we may need to include it anyway. Everyone will need to bare in mind that in order for it to be eligible for inclusion in the final list it'll need to go through the Hall of Judgement though.
Anyway... today's track is "Iron Man". It's the doomiest track we've looked at since "Black Sabbath"in my opinion. I'm going against the general consensus by choosing traditional doom metal on this one.
My newly created Top Ten Metal Releases of 1989 list:
01. Morbid Angel - "Altars of Madness"
02. Sepultura - "Beneath The Remains"
03. Faith No More - "The Real Thing"
04. Godflesh - "Streetcleaner"
05. Ministry - "The Mind Is A Terrible Thing To Taste:
06. Kreator - "Extreme Aggression"
07. Dream Theater - "When Dream & Day Unite"
08. Annihilator - "Alice In Hell"
09. Sodom - "Agent Orange"
10. Coroner - "No More Color"
As to the next album, I kind of want to see Lucifer's Friend and I kind of don't. It's sort of weaseled itself into any conversation about early heavy metal and it feels like even if I don't think it's metal, it should still be discussed. Just the debut, since I don't think any of the later albums are much in the running AFAIK.
I'll need to take your guidance on the Lucifer's Friend debut as I've never heard it in full. I've only heard the opening track "Ride In The Sky". If you (or any other familiar members) think it's not a metal release then I'm not seeing enough evidence elsewhere to make it a necessity. Outside of Lucifer's Friend, here are the other remaining 1970 candidates (as per Metal Archives):
Flower Travellin' Band - "Always"
Sir Lord Baltimore - "Kingdom Come"
I haven't heard the Flower Travellin' Band record but RYM has a YES 2 NO 40 vote on heavy metal for that one so I would suggest that it's not worth pursuing unless someone tells me otherwise.
I'm not sure if all of you are across the old Metal Academy podcast but Ben & I did a trial episode before committing to creating the first legitimate show back in the mid-2010's. It was essentially a 45+ minute episode on Sir Lord Baltimore's "Kingdom Come" that went really deep into every aspect of that record. The reason it's not on the Metal Academy database is because (despite being really well acquainted with it) neither of us think that it's a legitimate metal record. It seems to have the strongest case of the three though so I'm open to other member's thoughts if anyone feels we're wrong & want us to take a look at it.
I was pretty close to going with just a "psychedelia" tag myself to be honest.
This is my old review of "Bark at the Moon":
Both of Ozzy’s first two solo records had ended up becoming heavy metal classics which was more than partially due to the contribution of the ridiculously talented neo-classical guitar virtuoso Randy Rhoads. Unfortunately Randy was tragically killed in a light plane crash 1982 which left Ozzy & Sharon Arden with no choice but to rebuild Ozzy’s career with a new lineup. Thankfully Sharon is as tough as nails & she was able to pull Ozzy through this dark period & the result is 1983’s “Bark At The Moon” album. Ozzy had recruited Night Ranger guitar shredder Brad Gillis, Quiet Riot bassist Rudy Sarzo & Black Oak Arkansas drummer Tommy Aldridge for the “Diary Of A Madman” tour & the recording of his 1982 double live album “Speak Of The Devil” however Ozzy’s alcohol problems had been exacerbated by his grief over Randy’s death & he had taken a lot of his frustrations out on Gillis which resulted in him quitting the band at the end of the tour. Sarzo, who was originally recruited on Randy’s recommendation due to their prior relationship in Quiet Riot, also decided to leave the band after becoming disillusioned following Randy’s death so when tasked with the prospect of writing a new studio album Sharon & Ozzy needed to think long & hard about who would be the best fit to not only perform on the album but also to write it. The answer came in the form of 26-year old guitar shredder Jake E. Lee who had previously spent some time with both Ratt & Dio. Incidently, legendary Dokken shredder George Lynch was the other potential candidate & regardless of Lee’s undoubted skills I’m an absolutely huge George Lynch fan so I can’t help but feel that they made the wrong decision here . Strangely, former bassist Bob Daisley who had previously been unceremoniously axed from the band agreed to write & perform on the album too which is quite hard to believe given that he’d previously gone on holidays at Ozzy’s request only to find that he’d been replaced upon returning. If you look at the liner notes of the “Bark At The Moon” album you’ll see that all song-writing credits sit with Ozzy this time though. Bob apparently took a one-off payment for his credits while Jake was blackmailed by Sharon. She threatened to fire him & get another guitarist in to record his songs if he didn’t agree to sign over his portion of the song-writing credits. Such a nice chick!
The result is in many ways very similar to Ozzy’s first two albums but in others very different. Firstly, the production job on “Bark At The Moon” is incredibly ove rthe top featuring an extremely dated 80’s sound covered with cheesy Don Airey keyboards that make this album sound very much of it’s time. In fact I’d go so far as to say that this is the main reason that “Bark At The Moon” isn’t rated as highly as Ozzy’s earlier material. The other is the lack of Randy Rhoads but that’s not to say that Jake E. Lee doesn’t do a stellar job here because he certainly does. His style is a much more traditional heavy metal one but he’s clearly been heavily influenced by Randy in his improvisational approach to his rhythm guitar tracks. But the exotic neo-classical melody isn’t there & that’s what most people consider to be the missing link here. Personally I really like Jake’s performance as he’s got great technique & his sound is very exciting & very metal. In fact I find him to be the best thing about the album so I’ve never understood why some people seem to downplay his ability. I’ve never been a huge fan of Bob Daisley’s bouncy basslines however he’s now dropped those more minimal half-time efforts I took issue with on the first two Ozzy albums & his contribution is much more to my taste here even if I’d have much preferred to hear Rudy Sarzo. Tommy Aldridge takes a much more restrained & rock solid approach than he did on “Speak Of The Devil” which is a shame as I’d have loved to hear him play some more expansive stuff but it fits the songs pretty well regardless & ironically reminds me of Vinny Appice’s efforts on Black Sabbath’s recent efforts.
Musically “Bark At The Moon” features some great metal riffs that would comfortably have fit on “Blizzard Of Ozz” or “Diary Of A Madman”. Ozzy’s performance is par for the course although as the music gets cheesier with the additional keyboards Ozzy sounds more & more out of his comfort zone in my opinion. It’s only on the darker numbers that he seems to fit comfortably as his voice just doesn’t suit the more melodic stuff as well. The song-writing is as solid as ever but like earlier records we again have a horrible ballad in the middle of the album that brings the flow of the record to a grinding holt. I’m also not too fond of the pretty dumb “look at me, aren’t I a bad ass” approach of “Rock ‘n’ Roll Rebel” as it comes across as lacking any sort of artistic credibility.
When all is said & done though this is a pretty good Ozzy album. It’s just not a great one. If the keyboards were more restrained & tasteful with some less bombastic arrangements we might be talking about it in the same breath as Ozzy’s greats but that element really does bring it down a couple of notches. All fans of the classic heavy metal sound will find some enjoyment in the album anyway though. The performances are great & there’s quite a few fun metal tunes to be found if you don’t take things too seriously.
3.5
Perhaps you might like to raise a Hall of Judgement entry to have Black Sabbath moved to Non-Metal too given that’s your stance on it?
Scatterbrain - "Here Comes Trouble" (1990)
One of my best mates at high school picked up the debut album from New York's Scatterbrain very shortly after it was released off the back of the super-popular novelty single "Don't Call Me Dude" which resulted in me receiving a dubbed copy. Even though there's a clear tongue-in-cheek attitude behind the album, I quite enjoyed it too & a lot of that has to do with the high-quality musicianship & the general thrashiness of the material. Despite "Here Comes Trouble" generally being tagged as a funk metal record, that's a misleading guide as to what you'll ultimately hear with only a couple of tracks sitting in genuine funk metal territory. The remainder is very much a hybrid of alternative metal & some really well executed thrash metal that clearly showcases the band members roots in crossover band Ludichrist. I'd describe the album as a combination of the funk/alternative metal of Faith No More, the classy thrash metal of Megadeth & the snot-faced crossover thrash fun of Suicidal Tendencies. The opening titled track is a 90's thrash classic in my opinion while songs like "I'm With Stupid", "Down With The Ship (Slight Return)", "Mr. Johnson and The Juice Crew" & the much-talked-about "Don't Call Me Dude" are all really solid too. There are a couple of stupid inclusions like neoclassical metal instrumental "Sonata #3" & comedy/novelty rock closer "Drunken Milkman" that bring things back a bit & the funkier tracks aren't as appealing to me personally but this is still a surprisingly decent metal record & I seem to remember every second of it too.
3.5/5
This nomination has now been posted in the Hall of Judgement.
I've now posted the nomination for "Conclusion of an Age" in the Hall of Judgement. I've also passed the request for "Casting Shadows" as it now qualifies for inclusion in The Revolution.
These nominations have been posted in the Hall of Judgement (see the below link). I've also added "Casting Shadows" to The Revolution under the Melodic Metalcore subgenre as it now qualifies for inclusion.
Let's take a look at Black Sabbath's "Planet Caravan" today. Anyone bold enough to claim it as metal? If not, what non-metal subgenre do you think it should sit under? It's certainly not a rock track as far as I can see so the common feeling that it's a psychedelic rock song is incorrect in my opinion. I'm gonna go for psychedelic folk with tribal ambient & jazz influences.
In Rock was always going to be controversial, since in the end even if some of us think it's metal, it's also one of those albums your dad thinks is metal. I bring that up not because I think anyone said no because of it, merely that it's the kind of aura that hangs around an album like this one. I'm curious if that kind of aura is still going to show up when we do Lucifer's Friend or, I guess Bow Wow?
Side note, Daniel, do you have a plan should Youtube do to embeds what it's doing to stuff on the main site?
Interestingly, I first got into Deep Purple through my dad's albums back in the mid 1980's & we've even seen them play live together on multiple occasions. Dad was into hard rock in a major way & occasionally bled over into metal too on occasion (Note: his favourite record ever is Metallica's "The Black Album" just quietly) which is really where the roots of my heavy music obsession come from to begin with. I just happened to be with my dad when I read Morpheus' above post so I took the opportunity to ask him some questions about Deep Purple & "In Rock"s metal status. He said that he's never regarded any of the Deep Purple records he's aware of as metal. I asked him where he thought the line between hard rock & metal was & he said that the stuff that I was listening to in the mid-to-late 1980's when I drifted away from his hard rock albums was what heavy metal really is in his opinion. He was referring to the Ozzy-era Black Sabbath, Ozzy Osbourne, Iron Maiden & Judas Priest records that first saw me branching out from the Def Leppards, Motley Crues & Guns 'n' Roses'. He also said that he didn't hear Deep Purple being spoken of as heavy metal back in the day either which is interesting because it seems to be pretty common knowledge that they were. None of that proves anything but it was intriguing to gain his insights nonetheless.
In regards to "aura", I don't think bands like Lucifer's Friend or Bow Wow can be compared as they're simply so underground. I'm not intending on us covering every single release listed on Metal Archives here as a large portion of those clearly aren't metal. IF a release isn't already listed on Metal Academy then it won't be an automatic discussion point. It'll need a recommendation from a member who thinks it should qualify as metal for us to investigate it. On that topic, what does everyone think should follow "Paranoid"?
On the YouTube topic, I haven't given it any thought. If the function is no longer there then I don't think it'd create a major issue for us to be honest. It's more of a "nice to have".
"Hard Lovin' Man" has a galloping triplet groove, which is close to metal ("The Trooper", "Raining Blood", etc.), but Heart's "Barracuda" uses it too; it isn't exclusive.
I would suggest that "Barracuda" is an example of a rock band utilizing a metal tool. I don't think it means that palm-muted, bottom-string triplets should automatically be added to the rock kit bag just because a rock band is using it as a one-off creative tool.
Moving on with Black Sabbath's infamous sophomore record, what do we think of the ridiculously popular title track then? Metal or not? What subgenre exactly?
Personally, I've always viewed this one as one as being pure heavy metal & that still sounds right to me.
Yeah, I’m not a fan of that song either.
Definitely one of my favourite Scorpions tracks & easily the highlight of “Lovedrive” in my opinion.